[x]

*Long story short, when I was a kid we used to drop things into my
friends lighted pool at night. We were just goofing around, but now
that I remember the experience from 40 or so years ago, I recall we
enjoyed the sounds and sights of the experience. One time we dropped,
you had to drop cause throwing produced a different effect, a bowling
ball held overhead from the diving board and this produced a wonderful
sound and splash (it's best if the pool is completely calm). I wonder
what it would have sounded like underwater. Does anyone know if such
sound effects exist and how would you record such a sound underwater?
An underwater video would be interesting too.

Thanks, mr. x
*

[Richard Crowley]

"x" wrote ...
*Long story short, when I was a kid we used to drop things into my friends
lighted pool at night. We were just goofing around, but now that I
remember the experience from 40 or so years ago, I recall we enjoyed the
sounds and sights of the experience. One time we dropped, you had to drop
cause throwing produced a different effect, a bowling ball held overhead
from the diving board and this produced a wonderful sound and splash (it's
best if the pool is completely calm). I wonder what it would have sounded
like underwater. Does anyone know if such sound effects exist and how
would you record such a sound underwater? An underwater video would be
interesting too.

http://www.instructables.com has several articles on making
your own hydrophone (underwater microphone) or under-
water camera.

[Don Pearce]

x wrote:
*Long story short, when I was a kid we used to drop things into my
friends lighted pool at night. We were just goofing around, but now
that I remember the experience from 40 or so years ago, I recall we
enjoyed the sounds and sights of the experience. One time we dropped,
you had to drop cause throwing produced a different effect, a bowling
ball held overhead from the diving board and this produced a wonderful
sound and splash (it's best if the pool is completely calm). I wonder
what it would have sounded like underwater. Does anyone know if such
sound effects exist and how would you record such a sound underwater?
An underwater video would be interesting too.

Thanks, mr. x
*


A small omni mic is needed (directional mics aren't directional
underwater). You also need one of those long balloons you use to make
balloon animals - in fact use two for safety. Put the mic inside. Only
put the mic far enough into the water to get sound - don't let the level
go above the neck of the balloon.

For video a sort of periscope is a good idea. Just one angled mirror at
the bottom of a sealed tube, and point the camera downwards. That way
you don't need to worry about sealing it against water.

As for what things sound like underwater - nothing like what you hear on
films. Film sound for noises off (Foley effects) is universally **** - a
total disgrace in fact. Play the real sounds to most theatre audiences
and they won't actually recognise them, so used are they to the nonsense
they hear in cinemas.

d

[Richard Kuschel]

On Jun 6, 3:54 pm, Don Pearce wrote:
x wrote:

As for what things sound like underwater - nothing like what you hear on
films. Film sound for noises off (Foley effects) is universally **** - a
total disgrace in fact. Play the real sounds to most theatre audiences
and they won't actually recognise them, so used are they to the nonsense
they hear in cinemas.

d

That's for sure. I can't believe that every fish that moves produces a
splashing sound. and that the sound of bubbles seems to be prevalent.
Audiences are so ingrained with incorrect sound that it is difficult
to use real sound.

I recorded some gunshots for a presentation of an Indian wars battle
that took place in 1877.
The weapons were original period pieces. Colt revolvers and
Springfield trapdoor carbines for the soldiers with Henry repeaters
and other assorted weapons for the Nez Perce.

At the presentation, I was asked why the bullets didn't have
ricochets. How is the bullet going to ricochet, when the battlefield
is flat prairie land without rock formations?
If the bullet didn't hit its target, then it landed so far away that
the sound of it hitting was negligible.
Unless the situation is a cartoon, I tend to prefer natural sound
rather than obvious foley.

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 06:38:36 -0700 (PDT), Richard Kuschel
wrote:

I recorded some gunshots for a presentation of an Indian wars battle
that took place in 1877.
The weapons were original period pieces. Colt revolvers and
Springfield trapdoor carbines for the soldiers with Henry repeaters
and other assorted weapons for the Nez Perce.

At the presentation, I was asked why the bullets didn't have
ricochets. How is the bullet going to ricochet, when the battlefield
is flat prairie land without rock formations?
If the bullet didn't hit its target, then it landed so far away that
the sound of it hitting was negligible.
Unless the situation is a cartoon, I tend to prefer natural sound
rather than obvious foley.

Did your employers come round to your way of thinking? Or did you (or
someone else) get told to re-record?

[Richard Kuschel]

On Jun 7, 8:02 am, Laurence Payne wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 06:38:36 -0700 (PDT), Richard Kuschel

wrote:
I recorded some gunshots for a presentation of an Indian wars battle
that took place in 1877.
The weapons were original period pieces. Colt revolvers and
Springfield trapdoor carbines for the soldiers with Henry repeaters
and other assorted weapons for the Nez Perce.

At the presentation, I was asked why the bullets didn't have
ricochets. How is the bullet going to ricochet, when the battlefield
is flat prairie land without rock formations?
If the bullet didn't hit its target, then it landed so far away that
the sound of it hitting was negligible.
Unless the situation is a cartoon, I tend to prefer natural sound
rather than obvious foley.

Did your employers come round to your way of thinking? Or did you (or
someone else) get told to re-record?

Fortunately, the director was on site for all the recording. It was he
who was absolutely insistent on accurate rather than "Hollywood"
production.

We did have one little inaccuracy that was noticed by one of the
attendees at the premiere.
The situation was horses crossing a shallow stream. We had failed to
notice that the horses were shod, and Indian ponies would have been
unshod. The steel striking the rock streambed was audible.
She was the only one that noticed.

[Earl Kiosterud]

"Richard Kuschel" wrote in message
...
On Jun 6, 3:54 pm, Don Pearce wrote:
x wrote:

That's for sure. I can't believe that every fish that moves produces a
splashing sound. and that the sound of bubbles seems to be prevalent.
Audiences are so ingrained with incorrect sound that it is difficult
to use real sound.


And how about the invariable screeching of tires when a vehicle comes to a stop, but doesn't
even nose down perceptibly.

There's a show on Discovery HD called Sunrise Earth International. It's just outside
scenes, like jungle, lake, etc, and quite nice. But the audio is odd. In one of a
waterfall shot in Iceland (I think), the rush of water sounded very much as though someone
had put a delay with feedback, giving it a motorboating sound. Very unnatural. In another
jungle one, the birds and frogs you heard had a great deal of large-room reverberation. But
it was outside. Not a wall for miles. It should have sounded very clean and dry. Again
very unnatural. I suspect that the audio techs were essentially kids with toys. The sad
part is that and no one seemed to know they were damaging the show.

--
Earl

[Steve King]

"Earl Kiosterud" wrote in message
news:6fx2k.3041$Xu2.595@trnddc04...
|
| And how about the invariable screeching of tires when a vehicle comes to a
stop, but doesn't
| even nose down perceptibly.
|
| There's a show on Discovery HD called Sunrise Earth International. It's
just outside
| scenes, like jungle, lake, etc, and quite nice. But the audio is odd. In
one of a
| waterfall shot in Iceland (I think), the rush of water sounded very much
as though someone
| had put a delay with feedback, giving it a motorboating sound. Very
unnatural. In another
| jungle one, the birds and frogs you heard had a great deal of large-room
reverberation. But
| it was outside. Not a wall for miles. It should have sounded very clean
and dry. Again
| very unnatural. I suspect that the audio techs were essentially kids with
toys. The sad
| part is that and no one seemed to know they were damaging the show.
|
| --
| Earl

The first time I hiked through a pine forest near the Kettle Moraine state
park in Wisconsin I was amazed at the sounds I heard as I conversed with my
hiking companion. The pine trees were the Christmas tree type ranging to 20
feet tall with branches right down to the ground planted in rows about 20
feet apart. The effect was like a very, very short reverb with exaggerated
high frequencies, very metallic sounding and very other-worldly. I've
experienced similar sound reflections in the jungle in Costa Rica. So, I
wouldn't be so sure that the recorded sounds you heard were processed.

Steve King

[Ron Capik]

Earl Kiosterud wrote:

"Richard Kuschel" wrote in message
...
On Jun 6, 3:54 pm, Don Pearce wrote:
x wrote:

That's for sure. I can't believe that every fish that moves produces a
splashing sound. and that the sound of bubbles seems to be prevalent.
Audiences are so ingrained with incorrect sound that it is difficult
to use real sound.


And how about the invariable screeching of tires when a vehicle comes to a stop, but doesn't
even nose down perceptibly.
...snip...
--
Earl

....or feedback when ever someone steps up to a microphone.


Later...

Ron Capik
--

[RDOGuy]

On Jun 7, 10:48*am, Ron Capik wrote:

...or feedback when ever someone steps up to a microphone.

I HATE that. I mean... yeah, it sometimes happens in real life. But
it's as if there's a union rule that if you're sweetening a film that
includes a scene where someone speaks at a podium microphone, there
MUST be feedback.

[Richard Crowley]

"Earl Kiosterud" wrote...
There's a show on Discovery HD called Sunrise Earth International. It's
just outside scenes, like jungle, lake, etc, and quite nice. But the
audio is odd. In one of a waterfall shot in Iceland (I think), the rush
of water sounded very much as though someone had put a delay with
feedback, giving it a motorboating sound. Very unnatural. In another
jungle one, the birds and frogs you heard had a great deal of large-room
reverberation. But it was outside. Not a wall for miles. It should have
sounded very clean and dry. Again very unnatural. I suspect that the
audio techs were essentially kids with toys. The sad part is that and no
one seemed to know they were damaging the show.

Traditionally, those hardy cinematographers that went out
shooting all that nature footage were shooting MOS, and
*all* the SFX on the sound track were produced by Foley
artists who specialized in "nature" shots.

Now that everyone is switchcing to HD video and using
cameras with sound, maybe we will start to get some
*actual sound* that was recorded contemporaneous with
the video. Although chances are that if they are using the
camera-mount mic, they will end up with unusable sound
anyway and it will have to be "re-created" in the Foley
stage.

[Charles Tomaras]

"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
who specialized in "nature" shots.

Now that everyone is switchcing to HD video and using
cameras with sound, maybe we will start to get some
*actual sound* that was recorded contemporaneous with
the video. Although chances are that if they are using the
camera-mount mic, they will end up with unusable sound
anyway and it will have to be "re-created" in the Foley
stage.

Richard....it seems you have no appreciation for the "realism" of the sounds
of zooming, focusing and Velcro?

[Tobiah]

And how about the invariable screeching of tires when a vehicle comes to a stop,
but doesn't
even nose down perceptibly.

What bothers me time and again, is seeing a car accelerate on a dirt road,
kicking up dust, accompanied by same screeching sound.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

[Don Pearce]

Tobiah wrote:
And how about the invariable screeching of tires when a vehicle comes to a stop,
but doesn't
even nose down perceptibly.

What bothers me time and again, is seeing a car accelerate on a dirt road,
kicking up dust, accompanied by same screeching sound.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

What about the car chase where by the time the car has reached about
60MPH (which is as fast as they ever go in Hollywood films) the gearbox
has made about thirty audible up-changes.

d

[Greg Simmons]

On Jun 8, 12:50*am, "Earl Kiosterud" wrote:

In another
jungle one, the birds and frogs you heard had a great deal of large-room reverberation. *But
it was outside. *Not a wall for miles. *It should have sounded very clean and dry.

Not necessarily... I make many recordings in jungle and rainforest
areas from Borneo to Nepal, and am often surprised at the level of
'reverberation' (diffuse sound field is probably a better description)
they can produce. Especially in the dense hardwood forests in the
Terai region in Nepal. I've got a recording of distant elephant
trumpeting that you would swear had large reverberation added to it.
Likewise with swamp recordings, if the swamp borders a forested area.
The sound travels across the swamp water and produces a diffuse
slapback off the forest edge - this is particularly strong at night
time, when many frog recordings are made. The combination of cool air
immediately above the water and the warmer layer above it create a
channel that carries sound very well across the water to the forest
edge and then back again to the listener/microphone. Like the
reverberation, it can be hard to believe when listening back.

- Greg Simmons

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , x wrote:
*Long story short, when I was a kid we used to drop things into my
friends lighted pool at night. We were just goofing around, but now
that I remember the experience from 40 or so years ago, I recall we
enjoyed the sounds and sights of the experience. One time we dropped,
you had to drop cause throwing produced a different effect, a bowling
ball held overhead from the diving board and this produced a wonderful
sound and splash (it's best if the pool is completely calm). I wonder
what it would have sounded like underwater. Does anyone know if such
sound effects exist and how would you record such a sound underwater?
An underwater video would be interesting too.

Down to a couple feet, you can put an SM-57 in a condom and drop it in the
water. You can't get it too deep, though.

More than that and you want a hydrophone. Edmund Scientific used to sell
war-surplus Clevite hydrophones when I was a kid... they were very high-Z
but would be happy into any direct box. I bet some of those turn up on
Ebay.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

Found some hydrophone links you might want to check out, depending how
deep you want to record
http://www.cetaceanresearch.com/hydrophones/index.html
http://www.dolphinear.com/index.htm?...FRMJewodOCPMWw
http://www.aquarianaudio.com/

never used one myself but let us know how it goes.

Michael

[[email protected]]

Hi Mr X,
A search on this newsgroup would have probably brought up the info
that many of use a completely unprotected Countryman B6 omni lavalier
mic in water or underwater situations - quite simply, it is so tiny
that a natural air bubble covers the diaphragm when it goes underwater
(the cable is about 2 meters) and you have a relatively high
sensitivity / low impedance hydrophone right there. If you had one or
could get a cheap used one give it a try. Wash it afterwards if you
use it in salt water etc.

Jez Adamson