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#1
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Can loudspeakers really catch fire if you crank the volume?
Hi, I just started reading Daniel Levitin's book, "This is Your Brain
on Music" and in the introduction he says that in his college days he listened to music at such high volumes that: "I actually set my loudspeakers on fire by cranking the volume too high." Is this hyperbole, or can this really happen? Has anybody here ever experienced this? Thanks! |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Can loudspeakers really catch fire if you crank the volume?
On May 4, 3:31 pm, wrote:
Hi, I just started reading Daniel Levitin's book, "This is Your Brain on Music" and in the introduction he says that in his college days he listened to music at such high volumes that: "I actually set my loudspeakers on fire by cranking the volume too high." Is this hyperbole, or can this really happen? Has anybody here ever experienced this? The short answer is no, it can't happen. The long answer is still no. I have, for a variety of clients, done extreme stress testing of loudspeakers to the point of irrecoverable failure under a wide variety of circumstances. I have driven voice coils to the point of melting the attached domes, to beyond the point of boiling the ferrofluid out of the gap, and so on. In THOUSANDS of cases, there does not exist a single case of ANY of them coming remotely close to catching fire. In all cases, the electrical system simply opened up first. There was once a high-end store in Harvard Square which had a pair of EPI 100 speakers where the center of the cone was charred and burned through, and the store's claim was that their McIntosh amplifiers were so powerful that they set the speakers on fire. A friend bought the speakers for $5 as a curiosity and brought them buy. The burn pattern was VERY curious, indeed. While the cone was indeed burned, as in fire, the voice coil itself was perfectly intact and had NO signs of ANY thermal stress whatsoever. Further, the speakers had their grills, and there was no sign of soot or ash in the backside of the grill cloth, even thoughthe cones were extensively damaged. The conclusion was simple: the single case that I was able to examine where there was visual evidence of a fire was deliberately burned with a torch as a sales gimmick. The reasons it can't happen are many. In most cases, the voice coil or the solder joints for the flex leads or the power supply caps give up LONG before there's enough heat generated to raise the temperature to the ignition point of the cone. The voice coil is buried in a steel structure that conducts a LOT of the heat away. The speakers at that point are sounding SO awful by being so several overdriven that they are beyond intolerable to listen to. And so on. It's urban legend, short and sweet. Now, you want STUPID loud? I once knew a kid who would brag about the fact that he would take his Phase Linear 700 and hook it to his Bose 901's and set them up almost like giant headphones and play it SO loud his ears would bleed. He though it was WAY cool. I met him about 5-8 years later and he was a sorry young man in his mid 20's who was almost completely deaf. |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Can loudspeakers really catch fire if you crank the volume?
On May 4, 10:43*pm, wrote:
On May 4, 3:31 pm, wrote: Hi, I just started reading Daniel Levitin's book, "This is Your Brain on Music" and in the introduction he says that in his college days he listened to music at such high volumes that: "I actually set my loudspeakers on fire by cranking the volume too high." Is this hyperbole, or can this really happen? Has anybody here ever experienced this? The short answer is no, it can't happen. The long answer is still no. I have, for a variety of clients, done extreme stress testing of loudspeakers to the point of irrecoverable failure under a wide variety of circumstances. I have driven voice coils to the point of melting the attached domes, to beyond the point of boiling the ferrofluid out of the gap, and so on. In THOUSANDS of cases, there does not exist a single case of ANY of them coming remotely close to catching fire. In all cases, the electrical system simply opened up first. There was once a high-end store in Harvard Square which had a pair of EPI 100 speakers where the center of the cone was charred and burned through, and the store's claim was that their McIntosh amplifiers were so powerful that they set the speakers on fire. A friend bought the speakers for $5 as a curiosity and brought them buy. The burn pattern was VERY curious, indeed. While the cone was indeed burned, as in fire, the voice coil itself was perfectly intact and had NO signs of ANY thermal stress whatsoever. Further, the speakers had their grills, and there was no sign of soot or ash in the backside of the grill cloth, even thoughthe cones were extensively damaged. The conclusion was simple: the single case that I was able to examine where there was visual evidence of a fire was deliberately burned with a torch as a sales gimmick. The reasons it can't happen are many. In most cases, the voice coil or the solder joints for the flex leads or the power supply caps give up LONG before there's enough heat generated to raise the temperature to the ignition point of the cone. The voice coil is buried in a steel structure that conducts a LOT of the heat away. The speakers at that point are sounding SO awful by being so several overdriven that they are beyond intolerable to listen to. And so on. It's urban legend, short and sweet. Now, you want STUPID loud? I once knew a kid who would brag about the fact that he would take his Phase Linear 700 and hook it to his Bose 901's and set them up almost like giant headphones and play it SO loud his ears would bleed. He though it was WAY cool. I met him about 5-8 years later and he was a sorry young man in his mid 20's who was almost completely deaf. Oh, I dunno... You are assuming well-made, well-designed speakers that would generally fail as you describe from being over-driven. However, here are a few designed-to-fail situations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSqy7p--O2c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNBdWfBgqXk Sub-woofers are strange beasts - and those designed for vehicles yet stranger. One needs suspend assumptions when dealing with such animals. Catching fire from being over-drive would not surprise me at at all given that the are designed simply _not_ to fail from whatever abuse as might be thrown at them. I do remember one "legend" - an AR rep stating that their AR-9 speakers could be plugged into a wall and not sustain damage for at least ten full minutes. Yeah... right... Imagine that warranty claim. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Can loudspeakers really catch fire if you crank the volume?
Peter Wieck wrote:
I do remember one "legend" - an AR rep stating that their AR-9 speakers could be plugged into a wall and not sustain damage for at least ten full minutes. Yeah... right... Imagine that warranty claim. I remember that claim but I think it was for the AR-1W - not the AR-9. ---MIKE--- In the White Mountains of New Hampshire (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580') |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Can loudspeakers really catch fire if you crank the volume?
"Peter Wieck" wrote in message
... On May 4, 10:43 pm, wrote: On May 4, 3:31 pm, wrote: Hi, I just started reading Daniel Levitin's book, "This is Your Brain on Music" and in the introduction he says that in his college days he listened to music at such high volumes that: "I actually set my loudspeakers on fire by cranking the volume too high." Is this hyperbole, or can this really happen? Has anybody here ever experienced this? The short answer is no, it can't happen. The long answer is still no. I have, for a variety of clients, done extreme stress testing of loudspeakers to the point of irrecoverable failure under a wide variety of circumstances. I have driven voice coils to the point of melting the attached domes, to beyond the point of boiling the ferrofluid out of the gap, and so on. In THOUSANDS of cases, there does not exist a single case of ANY of them coming remotely close to catching fire. In all cases, the electrical system simply opened up first. There was once a high-end store in Harvard Square which had a pair of EPI 100 speakers where the center of the cone was charred and burned through, and the store's claim was that their McIntosh amplifiers were so powerful that they set the speakers on fire. A friend bought the speakers for $5 as a curiosity and brought them buy. The burn pattern was VERY curious, indeed. While the cone was indeed burned, as in fire, the voice coil itself was perfectly intact and had NO signs of ANY thermal stress whatsoever. Further, the speakers had their grills, and there was no sign of soot or ash in the backside of the grill cloth, even thoughthe cones were extensively damaged. The conclusion was simple: the single case that I was able to examine where there was visual evidence of a fire was deliberately burned with a torch as a sales gimmick. The reasons it can't happen are many. In most cases, the voice coil or the solder joints for the flex leads or the power supply caps give up LONG before there's enough heat generated to raise the temperature to the ignition point of the cone. The voice coil is buried in a steel structure that conducts a LOT of the heat away. The speakers at that point are sounding SO awful by being so several overdriven that they are beyond intolerable to listen to. And so on. It's urban legend, short and sweet. Now, you want STUPID loud? I once knew a kid who would brag about the fact that he would take his Phase Linear 700 and hook it to his Bose 901's and set them up almost like giant headphones and play it SO loud his ears would bleed. He though it was WAY cool. I met him about 5-8 years later and he was a sorry young man in his mid 20's who was almost completely deaf. Oh, I dunno... You are assuming well-made, well-designed speakers that would generally fail as you describe from being over-driven. However, here are a few designed-to-fail situations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSqy7p--O2c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNBdWfBgqXk Sub-woofers are strange beasts - and those designed for vehicles yet stranger. One needs suspend assumptions when dealing with such animals. Catching fire from being over-drive would not surprise me at at all given that the are designed simply _not_ to fail from whatever abuse as might be thrown at them. I do remember one "legend" - an AR rep stating that their AR-9 speakers could be plugged into a wall and not sustain damage for at least ten full minutes. Yeah... right... Imagine that warranty claim. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA When I was a student in the late 60s, I occasionally did discos for parties. I once needed a long 'speaker extension, there wasn't time to do it properly so decided to use a 25 metre mains extension, live was left, neutral was right and earth was the common ground. I wired a mains socket to banana plugs to go in the back of the amplifier. At one point, for reasons that may have had something to do with the amount of social intoxicants consumed, I ended up plugging the 'speaker extension into the mains. The right hand 'speaker just hummed quietly, but the left hand went BANG. It was probably the loudest noise I've ever heard. The cone (a 12" "full range" speaker) actually flew out of the cabinet and landed on the floor with small flames coming from the coil and former. Consequently, I can say that 'speakers CAN catch fire if you plug them into the 240 volt mains. S. -- http://audiopages.googlepages.com |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Can loudspeakers really catch fire if you crank the volume?
On Tue, 6 May 2008 15:50:52 -0700, MIKE--- wrote
(in article ): Peter Wieck wrote: I do remember one "legend" - an AR rep stating that their AR-9 speakers could be plugged into a wall and not sustain damage for at least ten full minutes. Yeah... right... Imagine that warranty claim. I remember that claim but I think it was for the AR-1W - not the AR-9. ---MIKE--- In the White Mountains of New Hampshire (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580') I remember that! Can you imagine the row? |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Can loudspeakers really catch fire if you crank the volume?
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#8
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Can loudspeakers really catch fire if you crank the volume?
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#9
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Can loudspeakers really catch fire if you crank the volume?
Peter Wieck wrote:
I do remember one "legend" - an AR rep stating that their AR-9 speakers could be plugged into a wall and not sustain damage for at least ten full minutes. Yeah... right... Imagine that warranty claim. Well ... even on 120V mains that's still 1.8 kW into 8 ohms ! I do know of a speaker with genuine 1200 watts continuous rating (Precision Devices 24 inch unit) but even that would fail. Graham |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Can loudspeakers really catch fire if you crank the volume?
"---MIKE---" wrote in message
Peter Wieck wrote: I do remember one "legend" - an AR rep stating that their AR-9 speakers could be plugged into a wall and not sustain damage for at least ten full minutes. Yeah... right... Imagine that warranty claim. I remember that claim but I think it was for the AR-1W - not the AR-9. AR-1 woofers were kinda fragile by modern standards. But they did tend to outlast the other drivers in the system, when they were used in the AR-3. There are high-powered amps that easily put out 120 volts RMS into low impedance loads without clipping. The speaker systems designed for use with them can probably pass the plug-'er-into-the-power-line test. We're talking live sound or car sound here. |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Can loudspeakers really catch fire if you crank the volume?
Arny wrote-
AR-1 woofers were kinda fragile by modern standards. But they did tend to outlast the other drivers in the system, when they were used in the AR-3. I'm still using a pair of AR-3 woofers for sub woofers in my system. They ar driven by an Apt-1. ---MIKE--- In the White Mountains of New Hampshire (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580') |
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