[Sigurd Stenersen]

Howdy

I recently bought a new computer, it came with Vista and I would like to get
this sh...tuff to play together.

I have plenty of gear (most of it 7-8 years old), and I have been working
with this gear by means of a RME Hammerfall (DIGI9652) and a MidiSport
8x8/s. Both of those devices have drivers that are supposed to (more or
less) work with Vista, but I'm getting nowhere with either. So I suppose
it's time to replace said devices with something new.

I'm aware of RME's Raydat card and the MOTU interfaces for MIDI. I'm just
wondering if there is something better/cheaper/both that will suit my setup.

What I need is at least 8x8 MIDI and 2x2 ADAT.

Any thoughts or suggestions ?


Sigurd

[Joe Kotroczo]

On 25/09/08 3:31, in article , "Sigurd
Stenersen" wrote:

Howdy

I recently bought a new computer, it came with Vista and I would like to get
this sh...tuff to play together.
(...)

Any thoughts or suggestions ?

Install XP? Or something else that sucks less than Vista?


--
Joe Kotroczo

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 03:31:02 +0200, "Sigurd Stenersen"
wrote:

I recently bought a new computer, it came with Vista and I would like to get
this sh...tuff to play together.

I have plenty of gear (most of it 7-8 years old), and I have been working
with this gear by means of a RME Hammerfall (DIGI9652) and a MidiSport
8x8/s. Both of those devices have drivers that are supposed to (more or
less) work with Vista, but I'm getting nowhere with either. So I suppose
it's time to replace said devices with something new.

In what way are you "getting nowhere"?

Both RME and MidiSport list Vista drivers for your equipment. They
don't say anything about them "more or less" working. Where did you
get this information?

RME in particular are not in the habit of releasing drivers that don't
work. Have you looked at
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_downloads...s_driver_hdspe

There seems to be a firmware update for your 9652 you need to install
before using the latest driver. Have you done this?

People who get frustrated with Vista often don't understand the User
Account Control system. You may prefer to turn it off. Do this in
Control Panel/Security Center under Other Securty Settings.

[Neil Gould]

Sigurd Stenersen wrote:
Howdy

I recently bought a new computer, it came with Vista and I would like
to get this sh...tuff to play together.

I have plenty of gear (most of it 7-8 years old), and I have been
working with this gear by means of a RME Hammerfall (DIGI9652) and a
MidiSport 8x8/s. Both of those devices have drivers that are
supposed to (more or less) work with Vista, but I'm getting nowhere
with either.

Have you asked about this on the RME site or audio forum? While I'm not
running Vista on my DAW (if it ain't broke, and all...), I have found that
RME's drivers are some of the best I've encountered (I also have the
DIGI9652). If RME says they work with Vista, they probably will.

--
Neil

[Richard Crowley]

"Sigurd Stenersen" wrote ...
I recently bought a new computer, it came with Vista and I would like to
get this sh...tuff to play together.

I have plenty of gear (most of it 7-8 years old), and I have been working
with this gear by means of a RME Hammerfall (DIGI9652) and a MidiSport
8x8/s. Both of those devices have drivers that are supposed to (more or
less) work with Vista, but I'm getting nowhere with either.

"getting nowhere" doesn't really reveal anything we could comment
on or offer advice for.

So I suppose it's time to replace said devices with something new.

I think most of us would conclude that its time to replace the operating
system with something old (and reliable) like XP, etc.

Since we don't know what "getting nowhere" means, we can guess
that it has something to do with drivers. Buying even newer devices
will just bring *different* driver problems with Vista.
Sounds like *adding* to your problems, not resolving them.

[Sigurd Stenersen]

"Laurence Payne" skrev
On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 03:31:02 +0200, "Sigurd Stenersen"
wrote:

I have plenty of gear (most of it 7-8 years old), and I have been working
with this gear by means of a RME Hammerfall (DIGI9652) and a MidiSport
8x8/s. Both of those devices have drivers that are supposed to (more or
less) work with Vista, but I'm getting nowhere with either. So I suppose
it's time to replace said devices with something new.

In what way are you "getting nowhere"?

In the way that neither of them work. The MidiSport ports don't show up in
Sonar, the Hammerfall works for a few seconds but then the computer freeze
completely.


Both RME and MidiSport list Vista drivers for your equipment.

I'm aware of that, and I have downloaded drivers for both that are supposed
to work with Vista.


They
don't say anything about them "more or less" working. Where did you
get this information?

The information I got from RME was that they don't support WDM on Vista. So
even if I could get it to work, I would not be able to play back audio files
using for instance WMP - it's not a show-stopper for me, but it did work on
XP and it was nice to have. Hence, it's supposed to (more or less) work on
Vista.


RME in particular are not in the habit of releasing drivers that don't
work. Have you looked at
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_downloads...s_driver_hdspe

Yes, but isn't that page for HDSP cards only ?


There seems to be a firmware update for your 9652 you need to install
before using the latest driver. Have you done this?

No, but isn't that for the HDSPs only ?


People who get frustrated with Vista often don't understand the User
Account Control system. You may prefer to turn it off. Do this in
Control Panel/Security Center under Other Securty Settings.

I'm not all that frustrated with Vista, in fact I want to make it work and
have already decided to throw away a few ill-behaved programs that don't
work with Vista. I want to make it work to the extent that I'm even willing
to buy a new expensive MIDI interface and a new expensive ADAT interface
instead of just downgrading to XP.

Will turning off this user account control stuff affect the problems I'm
dealing with in this context or benefit me in any other way ?


Sigurd

[Sigurd Stenersen]

"Neil Gould" skrev
Sigurd Stenersen wrote:
I have plenty of gear (most of it 7-8 years old), and I have been
working with this gear by means of a RME Hammerfall (DIGI9652) and a
MidiSport 8x8/s. Both of those devices have drivers that are
supposed to (more or less) work with Vista, but I'm getting nowhere
with either.

Have you asked about this on the RME site or audio forum? While I'm not
running Vista on my DAW (if it ain't broke, and all...), I have found that
RME's drivers are some of the best I've encountered (I also have the
DIGI9652). If RME says they work with Vista, they probably will.

Yes, and I did get some initial answers. But as soon as I got it to play
audio in Sonar and the system freeze started occuring, the answers stopped
coming (sans "try the card in a different slot").


Sigurd

[Sigurd Stenersen]

"Richard Crowley" skrev
"Sigurd Stenersen" wrote ...
I recently bought a new computer, it came with Vista and I would like to
get this sh...tuff to play together.

I have plenty of gear (most of it 7-8 years old), and I have been working
with this gear by means of a RME Hammerfall (DIGI9652) and a MidiSport
8x8/s. Both of those devices have drivers that are supposed to (more or
less) work with Vista, but I'm getting nowhere with either.

"getting nowhere" doesn't really reveal anything we could comment
on or offer advice for.

Well, I wasn't really asking for comments or advice on that. If you look at
the part you cut away from my post, you'll see that I asked about what to
buy.

It's not that I would mind getting the hardware I already have to work, it's
just that I don't believe it's going to happen.


Sigurd

[Mike Rivers]

On Sep 25, 5:03 pm, "Sigurd Stenersen" wrote:

The information I got from RME was that they don't support WDM on Vista. So
even if I could get it to work, I would not be able to play back audio files
using for instance WMP - it's not a show-stopper for me, but it did work on
XP and it was nice to have.

Welcome to the fast moving world of computers. If you hae actual work
to do that depends on anything not made by Microsoft (or Apple, if
you're on that side of the fence) you have to know when to put the
brakes on. At some point, the third party hardware manufacturers, who
may very well have designed the hardware back in the day before
Windows XP find themselves with hardware on their hands that isn't
compatible on its end with the drivers that they have to write to be
compatible on the computer end.

Also, understand that you're dealing with professional audio companies
who don't feel a need to support entertainment applications. That's
what built-in sound cards are for. As to the Midisport, well that's
not an expensive piece (relatively speaking) and you probably should
bite the bullet and just buy a new MIDI interface that's new enough to
be supported fully in Vista.

Alternately, you could step back to XP. Until such time as there are
applications that you really want to run that only run under Vista,
the only advantage Vista (64 bit only) gives you is letting you use
more memory than you can possbly justify owning. This may be valuable
in special applications, but not for general purpose recording and
composition.

There seems to be a firmware update for your 9652 you need to install
before using the latest driver. Have you done this?

No, but isn't that for the HDSPs only ?

I'm not intimately familiar with the RME line, but could this possibly
suggest that your interface is at the end of its support life?

I want to make it work to the extent that I'm even willing
to buy a new expensive MIDI interface and a new expensive ADAT interface
instead of just downgrading to XP.

That's commendable, and if that's what you want to do, by all means,
do it. It may not be smooth sailing even after you've spent money on
new hardware, but at least you'll be at the beginning of the climb
rather than sliding down the mountain and into the sea of
incompatibility.

[Sigurd Stenersen]

"Mike Rivers" skrev
On Sep 25, 5:03 pm, "Sigurd Stenersen" wrote:

The information I got from RME was that they don't support WDM on Vista.
So
even if I could get it to work, I would not be able to play back audio
files
using for instance WMP - it's not a show-stopper for me, but it did work
on
XP and it was nice to have.

Welcome to the fast moving world of computers. If you hae actual work
to do that depends on anything not made by Microsoft (or Apple, if
you're on that side of the fence) you have to know when to put the
brakes on. At some point, the third party hardware manufacturers, who
may very well have designed the hardware back in the day before
Windows XP find themselves with hardware on their hands that isn't
compatible on its end with the drivers that they have to write to be
compatible on the computer end.

I'm a professional software developer and have been for more than 20 years,
so I believe I'm well aware of what it takes to keep software up to date.


Also, understand that you're dealing with professional audio companies
who don't feel a need to support entertainment applications. That's
what built-in sound cards are for.

I'm aware of what "standard" sound cards are for. I'm also aware of the
fact that at least some of these professional audio companies *do* support
WDM for new products, and that they *did* support WDM for the old ones.

Anyway, like I said it's not that big a deal to me as I can just hook up
another cable from the PC to the deck - it just seems stupid to have to add
a cable when there already are cables and the only thing required to use
them is a small piece of software.


As to the Midisport, well that's
not an expensive piece (relatively speaking) and you probably should
bite the bullet and just buy a new MIDI interface that's new enough to
be supported fully in Vista.

I didn't refer to the MidiSport as expensive. I said I'm willing to buy an
expensive midi interface to get something that works on Vista.


There seems to be a firmware update for your 9652 you need to install
before using the latest driver. Have you done this?

No, but isn't that for the HDSPs only ?

I'm not intimately familiar with the RME line, but could this possibly
suggest that your interface is at the end of its support life?

That is what I have been suggesting since I started this thread.


I want to make it work to the extent that I'm even willing
to buy a new expensive MIDI interface and a new expensive ADAT interface
instead of just downgrading to XP.

That's commendable, and if that's what you want to do, by all means,
do it. It may not be smooth sailing even after you've spent money on
new hardware, but at least you'll be at the beginning of the climb
rather than sliding down the mountain and into the sea of
incompatibility.

But... but... but... That is what I asked for in the first place - I'd like
advice on WHAT TO BUY, not on how to fix what probably can't be fixed.

(I don't mind advice on how to fix it if it can be done, I just don't
believe it can. And I don't understand why all the responses I get seem to
be based on the idea that I want to keep these two pieces of equipment that
are most likely outdated.)


Sigurd

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:03:15 +0200, "Sigurd Stenersen"
wrote:

RME in particular are not in the habit of releasing drivers that don't
work. Have you looked at
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_downloads...s_driver_hdspe

Yes, but isn't that page for HDSP cards only ?


There seems to be a firmware update for your 9652 you need to install
before using the latest driver. Have you done this?

No, but isn't that for the HDSPs only ?

ARe there two sorts of 9652 cards then?

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:42:02 -0700 (PDT), Mike Rivers
wrote:

Alternately, you could step back to XP. Until such time as there are
applications that you really want to run that only run under Vista,
the only advantage Vista (64 bit only) gives you is letting you use
more memory than you can possbly justify owning. This may be valuable
in special applications, but not for general purpose recording and
composition.

Don't forget there's a 64-bit XP too.

[Sigurd Stenersen]

"Laurence Payne" wrote

ARe there two sorts of 9652 cards then?

At least.


Sigurd

[Richard Crowley]

"Sigurd Stenersen" wrote ...
"Richard Crowley" skrev
"Sigurd Stenersen" wrote ...
I recently bought a new computer, it came with Vista and I would like to
get this sh...tuff to play together.

I have plenty of gear (most of it 7-8 years old), and I have been
working with this gear by means of a RME Hammerfall (DIGI9652) and a
MidiSport 8x8/s. Both of those devices have drivers that are supposed
to (more or less) work with Vista, but I'm getting nowhere with either.

"getting nowhere" doesn't really reveal anything we could comment
on or offer advice for.

Well, I wasn't really asking for comments or advice on that. If you look
at the part you cut away from my post, you'll see that I asked about what
to buy.

It's not that I would mind getting the hardware I already have to work,
it's just that I don't believe it's going to happen.

But based on previous experience and first-hand anecdotal reports
about Vista, buying new equipment is not just unlikely to resolve
your (undefined) issues, but quite possibly make them even worse.
It just seems very much like the *wrong* "solution".

In my language, we have a saying about "jumping out of the frying-
pan and into the fire." You likely have something similar in your
language. :-)

[Richard Crowley]

"Sigurd Stenersen" wrote ...
Yes, and I did get some initial answers. But as soon as I got it to play
audio in Sonar and the system freeze started occuring, the answers stopped
coming (sans "try the card in a different slot").

And you are continuing with Vista why, exactly?

My latest sub-compact notebook PC came with Vista.
It didn't last 48 hours before I re-blasted it with XP.
All down-side and no perceivable upside benefit.
Just because Microsoft delivers a turkey doesn't mean
that I have to eat it.

[Richard Crowley]

"Sigurd Stenersen" wrote...
I'm a professional software developer and have been for more than 20
years,

As are several others of us here.

so I believe I'm well aware of what it takes to keep software up to date.

Developing layered applications for Windows (or Mac, Linux, etc.)
is one thing.

But unless you are a professional systems programmer working
on Vista drivers, you may not know as much about the internal
problems there as you think. Microsoft raised the bar significantly
with the release of Vista and that is why so many hardware and
software vendors are either continuing to scramble, or just
giving up.

(I don't mind advice on how to fix it if it can be done, I just don't
believe it can. And I don't understand why all the responses I get seem
to be based on the idea that I want to keep these two pieces of equipment
that are most likely outdated.)

Perhaps we (incorrectly) assumed that you were trying to get
your sound/computer system functional. If your actual goal is
to experiment with Vista, that is a very different question.
In fact it may be a question that fits better in a Vista newsgroup
than in this one (where computers are only fiddly accessories.)

Vista has a poor enough reputation so far that there doesn't
appear to be any compelling reason to deliberately subject
yourself to that kind of grief and hassle. Microsoft continues
to sell XP in quantities they never dreamed of, long after they
had intended to cut it off in favor of Vista.

Futher note that most big companies and 10s of millions of
end users have also concluded that Vista just isn't ready for
prime-time.

But if you want to be a Vista pioneer, more power to you.
(The pioneers are the ones with the arrows in their backs.)

[Mike Rivers]

On Sep 25, 7:42 pm, "Sigurd Stenersen" wrote:

But... but... but... That is what I asked for in the first place - I'd like
advice on WHAT TO BUY, not on how to fix what probably can't be fixed.

You sound like you are already aware of the issues. One that you
probalby have a hard time accepting, since you aren't building PC
audio products yourself, is that there IS no recommendation that's
guaranteed to work. Pick something that seems like it has the
functions you need, buy it, try it, and decide if you want to keep it
or not. You should know that no two systems are alike, and that this
means that thre's no guarantee that what works on my system will work
on your system.

And I don't understand why all the responses I get seem to
be based on the idea that I want to keep these two pieces of equipment that
are most likely outdated.)

I read and understood that you were willing to update your hardware, I
just can't promise that what I, or anyone else recommends will work
like a charm on your system. RME and MOTU have a pretty good track
record so they're a good bet to look into. Mackie is well behind in
the Vista race, so their products, while good sounding, are not a good
bet right now. Still, you may still have difficulty getting even a
"good bet" to work with your system. Or it may work right out of the
box. There's no predicting based on what we know now.

Find something that has the features you need, and give it a try.
Don't be afraid to return it and try something else if it doesn't
work. You can't count on the manufacdturer fixing it real soon.

[Romeo Rondeau[_4_]]

But... but... but... That is what I asked for in the first place - I'd
like advice on WHAT TO BUY, not on how to fix what probably can't be fixed.

(I don't mind advice on how to fix it if it can be done, I just don't
believe it can. And I don't understand why all the responses I get seem
to be based on the idea that I want to keep these two pieces of
equipment that are most likely outdated.)

Since you already know everything, go out and BUY some **** then. Folks
in here were trying to help you with a solution, all you want to do it
spend money. Hey... more power to you. So here's my recommendation: Buy
an interface that has ADAT lightpipes on it and be done with it. No,
it's not gonna work like the RME, NOTHING works like the RME, but you've
already decided that you want to replace it rather than find some way of
making your system work the way it should.

[Neil Gould]

Sigurd Stenersen wrote:
"Neil Gould" skrev
Sigurd Stenersen wrote:
I have plenty of gear (most of it 7-8 years old), and I have been
working with this gear by means of a RME Hammerfall (DIGI9652) and a
MidiSport 8x8/s. Both of those devices have drivers that are
supposed to (more or less) work with Vista, but I'm getting nowhere
with either.

Have you asked about this on the RME site or audio forum? While I'm
not running Vista on my DAW (if it ain't broke, and all...), I have
found that RME's drivers are some of the best I've encountered (I
also have the DIGI9652). If RME says they work with Vista, they
probably will.

Yes, and I did get some initial answers. But as soon as I got it to
play audio in Sonar and the system freeze started occuring, the
answers stopped coming (sans "try the card in a different slot").

Is it possible that the problem is with Sonar? I no longer keep up with the
Sonar ng, as my version does all I need of it, but it wouldn't surprise me
if there was some unresolved incompatibility with Vista.

I can understand your notion that it is a hardware problem since system
freezes are suggestive of some pretty low-level incompatibilities.

BTW - My card is the HDSP9652 (it's been years since I changed anything in
the DAW), and if I recall, there are some significant differences between
these two cards that could have implications for its use with Vista beyond
just the loss of WDM. Still, RME is a good company, so if you liked the
DIGI, why not get the HDSP version as an upgrade? You're already familiar
with the RME approach, and that would save a good bit of time in building
your new DAW.

--
Neil

[Richard Crowley]

Brian McCarty pretending to be "Soundhaspriority" wrote ...

These are very unhelpful comments, Romeo. People come here looking for
help,
and they expect the smarter people here to give them the right advice.
You're testy and abusive.

Plonk.

LOL!! :-))

"Plonked" by the #1 plonkee on Usenet! That's rich!

[Romeo Rondeau[_4_]]

Richard Crowley wrote:
Brian McCarty pretending to be "Soundhaspriority" wrote ...

These are very unhelpful comments, Romeo. People come here looking for
help,
and they expect the smarter people here to give them the right advice.
You're testy and abusive.

Plonk.

LOL!! :-))

"Plonked" by the #1 plonkee on Usenet! That's rich!



I truly have arrived :-)

[Sigurd Stenersen]

"Neil Gould" wrote
Sigurd Stenersen wrote:
"Neil Gould" skrev

Have you asked about this on the RME site or audio forum? While I'm
not running Vista on my DAW (if it ain't broke, and all...), I have
found that RME's drivers are some of the best I've encountered (I
also have the DIGI9652). If RME says they work with Vista, they
probably will.

Yes, and I did get some initial answers. But as soon as I got it to
play audio in Sonar and the system freeze started occuring, the
answers stopped coming (sans "try the card in a different slot").

Is it possible that the problem is with Sonar? I no longer keep up with
the
Sonar ng, as my version does all I need of it, but it wouldn't surprise me
if there was some unresolved incompatibility with Vista.

It's possible, but how would I find out ? The only non-WDM audio software I
have is Sonar, and the driver that is supposed to work on Vista doesn't
support WDM.


I can understand your notion that it is a hardware problem since system
freezes are suggestive of some pretty low-level incompatibilities.

Yes. But something tells me it could be fixed by a driver, as the time it
takes for the system to freeze increases when I increase the driver's
latency setting.

Either way, this card has served me well for a long time and I'm okay with
replacing it with something new.


BTW - My card is the HDSP9652 (it's been years since I changed anything in
the DAW), and if I recall, there are some significant differences between
these two cards that could have implications for its use with Vista beyond
just the loss of WDM. Still, RME is a good company, so if you liked the
DIGI, why not get the HDSP version as an upgrade? You're already familiar
with the RME approach, and that would save a good bit of time in building
your new DAW.

I'm sure the HDSPs are even better than the original 9652, but I'm also
pretty sure that the new Raydat is the best choice right now as it has
better specs, fits in a modern highspeed slot and is likely to last longer
in terms of new drivers/OSes.

At the same time, all the Hammerfalls have a lot of features I don't need.
All I have ever used it for is 2x2 ADAT and you'd think it was possible to
get this without (paying for) all the other stuff.


Sigurd

[Neil Gould]

Sigurd Stenersen wrote:
"Neil Gould" wrote
Sigurd Stenersen wrote:
"Neil Gould" skrev

Have you asked about this on the RME site or audio forum? While I'm
not running Vista on my DAW (if it ain't broke, and all...), I have
found that RME's drivers are some of the best I've encountered (I
also have the DIGI9652). If RME says they work with Vista, they
probably will.

Yes, and I did get some initial answers. But as soon as I got it to
play audio in Sonar and the system freeze started occuring, the
answers stopped coming (sans "try the card in a different slot").

Is it possible that the problem is with Sonar? I no longer keep up
with the
Sonar ng, as my version does all I need of it, but it wouldn't
surprise me if there was some unresolved incompatibility with Vista.

It's possible, but how would I find out ?

You might start by asking he
http://forum.cakewalk.com/default.asp

I can understand your notion that it is a hardware problem since
system freezes are suggestive of some pretty low-level
incompatibilities.

Yes. But something tells me it could be fixed by a driver, as the
time it takes for the system to freeze increases when I increase the
driver's latency setting.

If I recall, there are also buffer settings in Sonar that might have an
impact.

--
Neil

[Sigurd Stenersen]

"Neil Gould" wrote
Sigurd Stenersen wrote:
"Neil Gould" wrote

I can understand your notion that it is a hardware problem since
system freezes are suggestive of some pretty low-level
incompatibilities.

Yes. But something tells me it could be fixed by a driver, as the
time it takes for the system to freeze increases when I increase the
driver's latency setting.

If I recall, there are also buffer settings in Sonar that might have an
impact.

Those settings are disabled and the displayed buffer size only reflects what
I choose in the RME systray thingy. Also, there is no wave profiler. I
think this is because there's no WDM support (or because I'm forced to use
ASIO).


Sigurd