[Danny T]

To start with, I've been tuning my own piano for years because the
tuners that I have hired suck so bad I had to do it over anyway. I
noticed though, that over the years, my ability to tune low A is
extinct. A# works for my ear OK but A is a guess. I can get it close
but I know it is a bit out and just can't hear which way to tune it.

I'm sure there are smarter folks here dealing with the same things -
is there some way to get around hearing it? I'm getting the same
problem coming on for the highest few notes too. I hate getting old
but since I can't control that.......

Anyway, I know this isn't a piano tuning forum but there is no real
forum for that and figured If I'm tuning mine, someone else is
probably tuning theirs too.

[hank alrich]

Danny T wrote:

To start with, I've been tuning my own piano for years because the
tuners that I have hired suck so bad I had to do it over anyway. I
noticed though, that over the years, my ability to tune low A is
extinct. A# works for my ear OK but A is a guess. I can get it close
but I know it is a bit out and just can't hear which way to tune it.

I'm sure there are smarter folks here dealing with the same things -
is there some way to get around hearing it? I'm getting the same
problem coming on for the highest few notes too. I hate getting old
but since I can't control that.......

You can use an electronic tuner but not a cheap one intended for guitars
and such.

Anyway, I know this isn't a piano tuning forum but there is no real
forum for that and figured If I'm tuning mine, someone else is
probably tuning theirs too.

rec.music.makers.piano

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:52:54 -0700 (PDT), Danny T
wrote:

To start with, I've been tuning my own piano for years because the
tuners that I have hired suck so bad I had to do it over anyway. I
noticed though, that over the years, my ability to tune low A is
extinct. A# works for my ear OK but A is a guess. I can get it close
but I know it is a bit out and just can't hear which way to tune it.

I'm sure there are smarter folks here dealing with the same things -
is there some way to get around hearing it? I'm getting the same
problem coming on for the highest few notes too. I hate getting old
but since I can't control that.......

Anyway, I know this isn't a piano tuning forum but there is no real
forum for that and figured If I'm tuning mine, someone else is
probably tuning theirs too.


Can you hear the beats with the octave or 5th above?

[Danny T]

On Sep 30, 12:42*pm, Laurence Payne wrote:
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:52:54 -0700 (PDT), Danny T



wrote:
To start with, I've been tuning my own piano for years because the
tuners that I have hired suck so bad I had to do it over anyway. I
noticed though, that over the years, my ability to tune low A is
extinct. A# works for my ear OK but A is a guess. I can get it close
but I know it is a bit out and just can't hear which way to tune it.

I'm sure there are smarter folks here dealing with the same things -
is there some way to get around hearing it? I'm getting the same
problem coming on for the highest few notes too. I hate getting old
but since I can't control that.......

Anyway, I know this isn't a piano tuning forum but there is no real
forum for that and figured If I'm tuning mine, someone else is
probably tuning theirs too.

Can you hear the beats with the octave or 5th above?

I do use the octave above but I can't seem to hear the beats that
low..... I guess that rock bands I played in all those years ago were
a little louder then they should have been :-)

[[email protected]]

On 2008-09-30 said:
To start with, I've been tuning my own piano for years because the
tuners that I have hired suck so bad I had to do it over anyway. I
noticed though, that over the years, my ability to tune low A is
extinct. A# works for my ear OK but A is a guess. I can get it close
but I know it is a bit out and just can't hear which way to tune it.
I'm sure there are smarter folks here dealing with the same things -
is there some way to get around hearing it? I'm getting the same
problem coming on for the highest few notes too. I hate getting old
but since I can't control that.......
I used to tune my own because it was cheaper, and it was on
the road a lot. THen when I had a piano in my home studio
back in the late '80's was tuning myself just because it
saved money, and I had the tools. Was starting to have the
same difficulty you describe.

Last I recall there were a couple of tuners hanging out in
rec.music.makers.piano. IF satisfactory answers aren't
forthcoming here you might want to post your query there.





Richard webb,
replace anything before at with elspider

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--- Benjamin Franklin, NOvember 1755 from the
Historical review of Pennsylvania

[Richard Crowley]

"Danny T" wrote ...
To start with, I've been tuning my own piano for years because the
tuners that I have hired suck so bad I had to do it over anyway. I
noticed though, that over the years, my ability to tune low A is
extinct. A# works for my ear OK but A is a guess. I can get it close
but I know it is a bit out and just can't hear which way to tune it.

I'm sure there are smarter folks here dealing with the same things -
is there some way to get around hearing it? I'm getting the same
problem coming on for the highest few notes too. I hate getting old
but since I can't control that.......

Anyway, I know this isn't a piano tuning forum but there is no real
forum for that and figured If I'm tuning mine, someone else is
probably tuning theirs too.

Last time I observed a piano tuner at work, he had a
Palm Pilot (or something like that) with an attached mic
and a rather nice application program running on it that
showed a "strobe" of the piano note vs. the reference.
I thought it was quite slick. Something like that would
perhaps work for notes beyond what your ears can
discern.

[Federico]

What about this?
http://iphonetuner.com
:-)
F.

[Danny T]

On Sep 30, 2:15*pm, "Federico" wrote:
What about this?http://iphonetuner.com
:-)
F.

that's cool but if you can't hear the tone right it won't work. If you
have never tried to tune the low A of a piano you probably don't know
how aggravating it can be! I can hear great right down to the last A#
then its all over. I'm going to need to get a tuner that can hear that
low. I can fake it ok but it is really hard to get it dead on.

Funny thing is that I've spent some time today looking for answers and
what I have found is that most piano tuners tend to over stretch the
bottom and top for the same reason and they do it worse then I do. I
think that was one of the main reasons I started doing my own tuning -
because the tuners could not hear how off they were.

In the grand scheme of things, if I can't hear it there are few people
that will. I'm just extremely picky on tuning. I've been using auto-
tune to correct bass pitch for a long time even though I refuse to use
it on vocals. (bass players - whadda-ya-want)

Thanks for that tone generator though. I'm sure it will come in handy
sometime.

[polymod]

I'm a tuner (30 years and counting) and I'd be curious to know the
following:
1.) Make/model/size of piano?
2.) Did you check the piano when the tuner finished and have him/her not
stretch so much if at all. I'm suspecting the reason they're stretching is
due to the design of your piano.
3.) You really play songs with that low A?

FWIW I just ear it out the best I can. I'll play some type of pattern with
A2 and A3, then hit A1 and adjust until it sounds the best it can. The
smaller the piano, the more false harmonics make it harder to "hear" down
that far.

Good luck!
Poly


"Danny T" wrote in message
...
On Sep 30, 2:15 pm, "Federico" wrote:
What about this?http://iphonetuner.com
:-)
F.

that's cool but if you can't hear the tone right it won't work. If you
have never tried to tune the low A of a piano you probably don't know
how aggravating it can be! I can hear great right down to the last A#
then its all over. I'm going to need to get a tuner that can hear that
low. I can fake it ok but it is really hard to get it dead on.

Funny thing is that I've spent some time today looking for answers and
what I have found is that most piano tuners tend to over stretch the
bottom and top for the same reason and they do it worse then I do. I
think that was one of the main reasons I started doing my own tuning -
because the tuners could not hear how off they were.

In the grand scheme of things, if I can't hear it there are few people
that will. I'm just extremely picky on tuning. I've been using auto-
tune to correct bass pitch for a long time even though I refuse to use
it on vocals. (bass players - whadda-ya-want)

Thanks for that tone generator though. I'm sure it will come in handy
sometime.

[John Connors]

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:52:54 -0700 (PDT), Danny T wrote:

To start with, I've been tuning my own piano for years because the
tuners that I have hired suck so bad I had to do it over anyway. I
noticed though, that over the years, my ability to tune low A is
extinct. A# works for my ear OK but A is a guess. I can get it close
but I know it is a bit out and just can't hear which way to tune it.

I'm sure there are smarter folks here dealing with the same things -
is there some way to get around hearing it? I'm getting the same
problem coming on for the highest few notes too. I hate getting old
but since I can't control that.......

Anyway, I know this isn't a piano tuning forum but there is no real
forum for that and figured If I'm tuning mine, someone else is
probably tuning theirs too.

I have the same problem, along with some minor tinnitus as well......
I'm a pianist and have always touched up my own pianos.
I have perfect pitch as well which just aggravates things believe it or
not.

I just had an extensive audiology battery of tests run (more than the usual
'hearing test') and I have a 30db valley at 6k and some small low frequency
loss.

I'm 48yo btw...

Years of studio work and stupidity have brought me where I am today.

The audiologist I used told me she is seeing people in their 20's with
worse hearing than I have.

Thank you iPod..

Getting back to your OP, find a tuner with a good ear to touch up your work
and then spread the word to every professional you can find so he gets
business.
These guys are getting very difficult to find.

[Danny T]

I have the same problem, along with some minor tinnitus as well......
I'm a pianist and have always touched up my own pianos.
I have perfect pitch as well which just aggravates things believe it or
not.

I just had an extensive audiology battery of tests run (more than the usual
'hearing test') and I have a 30db valley at 6k and some small low frequency
loss.

I'm 48yo btw...

Years of studio work and stupidity have brought me where I am today.

The audiologist I used told me she is seeing people in their 20's with
worse hearing than I have.

Thank you iPod..

Getting back to your OP, find a tuner with a good ear to touch up your work
and then spread the word to every professional you can find so he gets
business.
These guys are getting very difficult to find.

I can't find a tuner! I'd love to be lazy and have someone clean up my
piano from time to time but the guys I have found (recommended from
piano stores) suck big time! I don't know where the old school guys
are. They all claim to be guild member so I have to assume that they
guild is nothing more then a dues collector anymore.

I have perfect relative pitch but I'm not sure it if is really just
perfect pitch. I can make mistakes sometimes. Either way, you're right
about making matters worse. I just got done tuning my piano after
moving it. I had a tuner tune it and I could not stand to play it
until I redid everything. He had it pitched down a bit and I have not
played it because of that since I moved it here in April. I've been
sticking to my roland keyboard instead. Now that I pitched it up to
440 I love it.

My ears have a bit of that tinnitus too. The ringing will completely
go away most of the time but sometimes when it is really quite it
haunts me. Mine is dead on pitch of a C, 3 octaves above middle C. I
can tune to it when it comes around - funny if you think about it. I
think I got mine mostly from throwing short fused firecrackers when I
was a kid but I am sure that years of touring in rock bands helped a
bit too.... come to think of it, being married for 22 years may have
contributed as well - at least to the willfully deaf part :-)

[Federico]

I wonder if this works
http://www.behringer.com/BTR2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG
F.

[Danny T]

On Sep 30, 4:09*pm, "Federico" wrote:
I wonder if this workshttp://www.behringer.com/BTR2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG
F.

I've been meaning to get one like that anyway but the problem is that
Low A is actually not in tune if it is in tune. When you tune a piano,
the higher octaves are pitched slightly high and the bass end slightly
flat. I dead on pitch piano sounds very ugly and there is no way to
pitch it to a specific frequency either. Pianos are pitched to 440 on
the 440 A only. From there, all other notes are just slightly off but
pitched to itself. It has to be tuned to itself across the keyboard
and each piano is unique in itself. '

I thought I might try to get a great sampled piano and tune to the
notes there but of course there are 2 problems to that: I couldn't
hear that low note anyway and the note would only belong to the piano
that was sampled and not mine.

For now, I think I am going to have to be content with close is good
enough

[Moshe Goldfarb.]

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:38:06 -0700 (PDT), Danny T wrote:



I can't find a tuner! I'd love to be lazy and have someone clean up my
piano from time to time but the guys I have found (recommended from
piano stores) suck big time! I don't know where the old school guys
are. They all claim to be guild member so I have to assume that they
guild is nothing more then a dues collector anymore.

Sadly I believe like with most associations, this is indeed the case.

I have perfect relative pitch but I'm not sure it if is really just
perfect pitch. I can make mistakes sometimes. Either way, you're right
about making matters worse. I just got done tuning my piano after
moving it. I had a tuner tune it and I could not stand to play it
until I redid everything. He had it pitched down a bit and I have not
played it because of that since I moved it here in April. I've been
sticking to my roland keyboard instead. Now that I pitched it up to
440 I love it.

I played a gig where the piano was 1/2 step low and it drove me nuts!!
My internal pitch mechanism was screwed up because of it.


My ears have a bit of that tinnitus too. The ringing will completely
go away most of the time but sometimes when it is really quite it
haunts me. Mine is dead on pitch of a C, 3 octaves above middle C. I
can tune to it when it comes around - funny if you think about it. I
think I got mine mostly from throwing short fused firecrackers when I
was a kid but I am sure that years of touring in rock bands helped a
bit too.... come to think of it, being married for 22 years may have
contributed as well - at least to the willfully deaf part :-)

Mine is about 10khz I believe.
It's worse when rain or snow is in the forecast or if I am under stress.

One other thing you can try is local churches, big ones.
Ask if you can try their piano and if it sounds good to you, ask who they
use.
Local venues, again larger rooms that attract near top tier talent are
another source.
Check with some larger studios in your area as well, especially if they
cater to classical or jazz recording.

That's really all you can do because these people, the talented ones, are
becoming slowly extinct.

The problem with tuning a piano completely with an electronic device is
that when you are done, you will have a perfectly tuned piano that will
sound like crap (in most cases).
Piano tuning and even more so voicing is an art.
It's like painting while following one of those artists on TV.
Sure you can duplicate each brush stroke, but your picture will
will still lack in the finer details that a talented artist's picture will
have.
--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org

[Ben Bradley[_2_]]

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:52:54 -0700 (PDT), Danny T
wrote:

To start with, I've been tuning my own piano for years because the
tuners that I have hired suck so bad I had to do it over anyway. I
noticed though, that over the years, my ability to tune low A is
extinct. A# works for my ear OK but A is a guess. I can get it close
but I know it is a bit out and just can't hear which way to tune it.

I barely know enough to be dangerous, but I think I can point you
in the right direction. If you get it properly configured for the
temperament you want/use, this will help you with those extreme notes
(this is real piano tuning software):

http://www.tunelab-world.com/tl97.html

If you don't like that particular program but machine-assisted
tuning appeals to you, there are lots of more modern programs that run
on Windows and various palm-pilot/blackberry/cellphone platforms as
well as on dedicated tuning computers. I'm not familiar with them but
you can ask on the list below.

While I'm on tuners - the above isn't appropriate for reguar old
guitars and basses, as it's much too sensitive. It might work well for
electronic organs, I haven't tried that. I use G-tune, it's plenty
accurate enough, and works great for tweaking the bridge temperament
on fretted string instruments and such:

http://www.jhc-software.com/gtune.htm

I'm sure there are smarter folks here dealing with the same things -
is there some way to get around hearing it? I'm getting the same
problem coming on for the highest few notes too. I hate getting old
but since I can't control that.......

I've sometimes had a hard time hearing the pitch of piano notes
below E (I think my ears are hard-coded from rock to ignore anything
below the low E on an electric bass), but I can usually hear the 4th
harmonic beating with the note two octaves up. That's usually easier
than the 2nd beating with one octave up. But mostly I try to use that
tunelab97 program.

But I haven't done much piano tuning since my church moved a year
ago, and that awful thing with pins that slipped badly in winter (it
got to where I tweaked it every Sunday before service - I finally had
the idea of putting cups of water in the bottom, which helped humidify
the thing), it got sold in the church moving/yard sale for $50. I
really feel sorry for whoever bought it.


Anyway, I know this isn't a piano tuning forum but there is no real
forum for that and figured If I'm tuning mine, someone else is
probably tuning theirs too.


I've got the exact forum for you. Subscribe he

http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech

It's a really active list, you don't need to be a PTG member or
anything to subscribe and post questions. I've been lurking and not
even reading it all for a few years now. A lot of the questions are
just like yours. The people on the list appear to both know and care
what they're doing, and have no problem helping new folks. Maybe they
can even give you the name of a GOOD tuner in your area.

[Danny T]

On Sep 30, 10:28*pm, Ben Bradley wrote:
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:52:54 -0700 (PDT), Danny T

wrote:
To start with, I've been tuning my own piano for years because the
tuners that I have hired suck so bad I had to do it over anyway. I
noticed though, that over the years, my ability to tune low A is
extinct. A# works for my ear OK but A is a guess. I can get it close
but I know it is a bit out and just can't hear which way to tune it.

* *I barely know enough to be dangerous, but I think I can point you
in the right direction. If you get it properly configured for the
temperament you want/use, this will help you with those extreme notes
(this is real piano tuning software):

http://www.tunelab-world.com/tl97.html

* *If you don't like that particular program but machine-assisted
tuning appeals to you, there are lots of more modern programs that run
on Windows and various palm-pilot/blackberry/cellphone platforms as
well as on dedicated tuning computers. I'm not familiar with them but
you can ask on the list below.

* *While I'm on tuners - the above isn't appropriate for reguar old
guitars and basses, as it's much too sensitive. It might work well for
electronic organs, I haven't tried that. I use G-tune, it's plenty
accurate enough, and works great for tweaking the bridge temperament
on fretted string instruments and such:

http://www.jhc-software.com/gtune.htm

I'm sure there are smarter folks here dealing with the same things -
is there some way to get around hearing it? I'm getting the same
problem coming on for the highest few notes too. I hate getting old
but since I can't control that.......

* *I've sometimes had a hard time hearing the pitch of piano notes
below E (I think my ears are hard-coded from rock to ignore anything
below the low E on an electric bass), but I can usually hear the 4th
harmonic beating with the note two octaves up. That's usually easier
than the 2nd beating with one octave up. But mostly I try to use that
tunelab97 program.

* *But I haven't done much piano tuning since my church moved a year
ago, and that awful thing with pins that slipped badly in winter (it
got to where I tweaked it every Sunday before service - I finally had
the idea of putting cups of water in the bottom, which helped humidify
the thing), it got sold in the church moving/yard sale for $50. I
really feel sorry for whoever bought it.



Anyway, I know this isn't a piano tuning forum but there is no real
forum for that and figured If I'm tuning mine, someone else is
probably tuning theirs too.

* * I've got the exact forum for you. Subscribe he

http://www.ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech

* *It's a really active list, you don't need to be a PTG member or
anything to subscribe and post questions. I've been lurking and not
even reading it all for a few years now. A lot of the questions are
just like yours. The people on the list appear to both know and care
what they're doing, and have no problem helping new folks. Maybe they
can even give you the name of a GOOD tuner in your area.


I don't know what happened... I posted saying I downloaded and joined
- yada yada...

I'm lacking energy to retype so please know I am very grateful for all
the info.

Thank you Ben

[polymod]

"Danny T" wrote in message
...


I have the same problem, along with some minor tinnitus as well......
I'm a pianist and have always touched up my own pianos.
I have perfect pitch as well which just aggravates things believe it or
not.

I just had an extensive audiology battery of tests run (more than the
usual
'hearing test') and I have a 30db valley at 6k and some small low
frequency
loss.

I'm 48yo btw...

Years of studio work and stupidity have brought me where I am today.

The audiologist I used told me she is seeing people in their 20's with
worse hearing than I have.

Thank you iPod..

Getting back to your OP, find a tuner with a good ear to touch up your
work
and then spread the word to every professional you can find so he gets
business.
These guys are getting very difficult to find.

I can't find a tuner! I'd love to be lazy and have someone clean up my
piano from time to time but the guys I have found (recommended from
piano stores) suck big time! I don't know where the old school guys
are. They all claim to be guild member so I have to assume that they
guild is nothing more then a dues collector anymore.

We're still out there. You just have to look a little harder!

Poly

[Danny T]

On Sep 30, 2:50*pm, "polymod" wrote:
I'm a tuner (30 years and counting) and I'd be curious to know the
following:
1.) Make/model/size of piano?
2.) Did you check the piano when the tuner finished and have him/her not
stretch so much if at all. I'm suspecting the reason they're stretching is
due to the design of your piano.
3.) You really play songs with that low A?

FWIW I just ear it out the best I can. I'll play some type of pattern with
A2 and A3, then hit A1 and adjust until it sounds the best it can. The
smaller the piano, the more false harmonics make it harder to "hear" down
that far.

Good luck!
Poly

Hey Poly
The piano I was speaking of/tuning is a spinet I was given when I
turned 8 years old. For a spinet it is very good but it's still a
spinet. It has a wurlitzer harp and the body was made by Summer &
Sons. It's a mid 60' piano that has been kept up well since birth but
like I said, it's a spinet.

The last tuner that I paid to tune this showed up with some kind of
scope. I wasn't around to watch him or see what he was doing. The
piano was in my office and I had to leave but when I came back I sat
down to play it and was horrified. I had already written out the check
for the guy so I just sent him packing and tuned it back myself. I
have had 2 or more pianos in my house since I was 2 years old and the
tuner we used as a kid taught me every time he came over which was
about 4 piano tunings a year. From that point on I just started doing
the entire tuning my self. Before that I fixed things all the time but
never took on the entire piano.

As for using low A, I can't really think of a time I do but the
harmonics of the piano are at stake with a note out. When you're anal
you need to just go with i geritol :-)

What you say you do with the note is what I have been doing. I figured
there is a good trick to it but I guess not. I do have to say I am
worried. I never thought I would get to the stage where I could not
hear the note. I am feeling my age more then I ever have in the past.
My birthdays meant nothing but not being able to distinguish the note
is making me feel rather.

[Danny T]

On Oct 1, 6:00*am, "polymod" wrote:
"Danny T" wrote in message

...





I have the same problem, along with some minor tinnitus as well......
I'm a pianist and have always touched up my own pianos.
I have perfect pitch as well which just aggravates things believe it or
not.

I just had an extensive audiology battery of tests run (more than the
usual
'hearing test') and I have a 30db valley at 6k and some small low
frequency
loss.

I'm 48yo btw...

Years of studio work and stupidity have brought me where I am today.

The audiologist I used told me she is seeing people in their 20's with
worse hearing than I have.

Thank you iPod..

Getting back to your OP, find a tuner with a good ear to touch up your
work
and then spread the word to every professional you can find so he gets
business.
These guys are getting very difficult to find.

I can't find a tuner! I'd love to be lazy and have someone clean up my
piano from time to time but the guys I have found (recommended from
piano stores) suck big time! I don't know where the old school guys
are. They all claim to be guild member so I have to assume that they
guild is nothing more then a dues collector anymore.

We're still out there. You just have to look a little harder!

Poly

Care to drive to Lafayette LA :-)

[hank alrich]

Danny T wrote:

The piano I was speaking of/tuning is a spinet I was given when I
turned 8 years old. For a spinet it is very good but it's still a
spinet. It has a wurlitzer harp and the body was made by Summer &
Sons. It's a mid 60' piano that has been kept up well since birth but
like I said, it's a spinet.

I've neverheard a spinet with much of a low A note. It's working against
you from the gitgo. Can't you just Autotune it in post? g

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

[hank alrich]

Danny T wrote:

On Oct 1, 6:00 am, "polymod" wrote:
"Danny T" wrote in message

...





I have the same problem, along with some minor tinnitus as well......
I'm a pianist and have always touched up my own pianos.
I have perfect pitch as well which just aggravates things believe it or
not.

I just had an extensive audiology battery of tests run (more than the
usual
'hearing test') and I have a 30db valley at 6k and some small low
frequency
loss.

I'm 48yo btw...

Years of studio work and stupidity have brought me where I am today.

The audiologist I used told me she is seeing people in their 20's with
worse hearing than I have.

Thank you iPod..

Getting back to your OP, find a tuner with a good ear to touch up your
work
and then spread the word to every professional you can find so he gets
business.
These guys are getting very difficult to find.

I can't find a tuner! I'd love to be lazy and have someone clean up my
piano from time to time but the guys I have found (recommended from
piano stores) suck big time! I don't know where the old school guys
are. They all claim to be guild member so I have to assume that they
guild is nothing more then a dues collector anymore.

We're still out there. You just have to look a little harder!

Poly

Care to drive to Lafayette LA :-)

Hey, I know a terrific tuner who lives in Carson City NV. We line up a
handful of folks who need their pianos tuned and he comes to visit for a
couple of days.

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

[Danny T]

On Oct 1, 11:11*am, (hank alrich) wrote:
Danny T wrote:
The piano I was speaking of/tuning is a spinet I was given when I
turned 8 years old. For a spinet it is very good but it's still a
spinet. It has a wurlitzer harp and the body was made by Summer &
Sons. It's a mid 60' piano that has been kept up well since birth but
like I said, it's a spinet.

I've neverheard a spinet with much of a low A note. It's working against
you from the gitgo. Can't you just Autotune it in post? g

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

I need to get my kids a new piano - I know... but they cost a bit more
then I can squeeze out of my beer budget :-) I keep waiting for
someone to their "old" unwanted Steinway.

I have a good friend that is a charter captain, took someone out for a
3 hour daysail and as a tip got a C7 with full midi because the lady
was painting her living room and it was no longer going to match! I
get a little sick every time I think about that.....

[Danny T]

On Oct 1, 11:11*am, (hank alrich) wrote:
Danny T wrote:
On Oct 1, 6:00 am, "polymod" wrote:
"Danny T" wrote in message

....

I have the same problem, along with some minor tinnitus as well.......
I'm a pianist and have always touched up my own pianos.
I have perfect pitch as well which just aggravates things believe it or
not.

I just had an extensive audiology battery of tests run (more than the
usual
'hearing test') and I have a 30db valley at 6k and some small low
frequency
loss.

I'm 48yo btw...

Years of studio work and stupidity have brought me where I am today.

The audiologist I used told me she is seeing people in their 20's with
worse hearing than I have.

Thank you iPod..

Getting back to your OP, find a tuner with a good ear to touch up your
work
and then spread the word to every professional you can find so he gets
business.
These guys are getting very difficult to find.

I can't find a tuner! I'd love to be lazy and have someone clean up my
piano from time to time but the guys I have found (recommended from
piano stores) suck big time! I don't know where the old school guys
are. They all claim to be guild member so I have to assume that they
guild is nothing more then a dues collector anymore.

We're still out there. You just have to look a little harder!

Poly

Care to drive to Lafayette LA *:-)

Hey, I know a terrific tuner who lives in Carson City NV. We line up a
handful of folks who need their pianos tuned and he comes to visit for a
couple of days.

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

That's not a half bad idea. I knew a flight instructor that did the
same sort of thing and did really well that way.

[Scott Dorsey]

Danny T wrote:

I need to get my kids a new piano - I know... but they cost a bit more
then I can squeeze out of my beer budget :-) I keep waiting for
someone to their "old" unwanted Steinway.

I have a good friend that is a charter captain, took someone out for a
3 hour daysail and as a tip got a C7 with full midi because the lady
was painting her living room and it was no longer going to match! I
get a little sick every time I think about that.....

There are a lot of those out there, mostly owned by people with more money
than sense who don't actually play the piano. The bad news about them is
that they often have not been tuned for many years and can take a lot of
time to settle down into a stable tuning.

I once had the chance to buy a Bosendorfer for $300. It had been painted
with pink enamel paint (with lots of brush strokes), but the soundboard was
intact. I didn't have the room for it, but I still feel bad about having
lost the chance.

There are a lot of good pianos out there in ratty cabinets, being sold cheaply
by people who care more about the cabinet than the stuff inside. As long
as the soundboard is intact, the piano can be restored to good condition.

Oh yeah.... and avoid anything that came out of a church. Unless it started
out as a really high-end piano and it is basically free.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[polymod]

"Danny T" wrote in message
...
On Sep 30, 2:50 pm, "polymod" wrote:
I'm a tuner (30 years and counting) and I'd be curious to know the
following:
1.) Make/model/size of piano?
2.) Did you check the piano when the tuner finished and have him/her not
stretch so much if at all. I'm suspecting the reason they're stretching is
due to the design of your piano.
3.) You really play songs with that low A?

FWIW I just ear it out the best I can. I'll play some type of pattern with
A2 and A3, then hit A1 and adjust until it sounds the best it can. The
smaller the piano, the more false harmonics make it harder to "hear" down
that far.

Good luck!
Poly

Hey Poly
The piano I was speaking of/tuning is a spinet.......

Now how did I know that?


Poly

[polymod]

"Danny T" wrote in message
...
On Oct 1, 6:00 am, "polymod" wrote:
"Danny T" wrote in message

...





I have the same problem, along with some minor tinnitus as well......
I'm a pianist and have always touched up my own pianos.
I have perfect pitch as well which just aggravates things believe it
or
not.

I just had an extensive audiology battery of tests run (more than the
usual
'hearing test') and I have a 30db valley at 6k and some small low
frequency
loss.

I'm 48yo btw...

Years of studio work and stupidity have brought me where I am today.

The audiologist I used told me she is seeing people in their 20's with
worse hearing than I have.

Thank you iPod..

Getting back to your OP, find a tuner with a good ear to touch up your
work
and then spread the word to every professional you can find so he gets
business.
These guys are getting very difficult to find.

I can't find a tuner! I'd love to be lazy and have someone clean up my
piano from time to time but the guys I have found (recommended from
piano stores) suck big time! I don't know where the old school guys
are. They all claim to be guild member so I have to assume that they
guild is nothing more then a dues collector anymore.

We're still out there. You just have to look a little harder!

Poly

Care to drive to Lafayette LA :-)

I'd love to, but my van wouldn't make it g

Poly

[GregS[_3_]]

In article , Danny T wrote:
On Oct 1, 11:11=A0am, (hank alrich) wrote:
Danny T wrote:
The piano I was speaking of/tuning is a spinet I was given when I
turned 8 years old. For a spinet it is very good but it's still a
spinet. It has a wurlitzer harp and the body was made by Summer &
Sons. It's a mid 60' piano that has been kept up well since birth but
like I said, it's a spinet.

I've neverheard a spinet with much of a low A note. It's working against
you from the gitgo. Can't you just Autotune it in post? g

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

I need to get my kids a new piano - I know... but they cost a bit more
then I can squeeze out of my beer budget :-) I keep waiting for
someone to their "old" unwanted Steinway.

I have a good friend that is a charter captain, took someone out for a
3 hour daysail and as a tip got a C7 with full midi because the lady
was painting her living room and it was no longer going to match! I
get a little sick every time I think about that.....


I was just thinking of the just recently refurbished Steinway
that was on Mr. Rodgers show played by Johny Costa, on the news
last night.

I didn't know Mr. Rodgers when I was young. It was all Josi Cari, and Rodgers
was doing the puppets.

I can hear it now.

greg

[Danny T]

On Oct 1, 11:32*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Danny T wrote:



I need to get my kids a new piano - I know... but they cost a bit more
then I can squeeze out of my beer budget :-) I keep waiting for
someone to their "old" unwanted Steinway.

I have a good friend that is a charter captain, took someone out for a
3 hour daysail and as a tip got a C7 with full midi because the lady
was painting her living room and it was no longer going to match! I
get a little sick every time I think about that.....

There are a lot of those out there, mostly owned by people with more money
than sense who don't actually play the piano. *The bad news about them is
that they often have not been tuned for many years and can take a lot of
time to settle down into a stable tuning.

I once had the chance to buy a Bosendorfer for $300. *It had been painted
with pink enamel paint (with lots of brush strokes), but the soundboard was
intact. *I didn't have the room for it, but I still feel bad about having
lost the chance.

There are a lot of good pianos out there in ratty cabinets, being sold cheaply
by people who care more about the cabinet than the stuff inside. *As long
as the soundboard is intact, the piano can be restored to good condition.

Oh yeah.... and avoid anything that came out of a church. *Unless it started
out as a really high-end piano and it is basically free.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. *C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

The freebie C7 my friend got was primo! I've played it many times. The
lady just wanted a piano in the living room - but she probably had it
tuned 2 times a year by the way it sounded. It was a cherry box and
she thought it didn't match. I keep waiting for something like that to
happen to me but - oh well.....

[Moshe Goldfarb.]

On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 09:23:51 -0700 (PDT), Danny T wrote:

On Oct 1, 11:11*am, (hank alrich) wrote:
Danny T wrote:
The piano I was speaking of/tuning is a spinet I was given when I
turned 8 years old. For a spinet it is very good but it's still a
spinet. It has a wurlitzer harp and the body was made by Summer &
Sons. It's a mid 60' piano that has been kept up well since birth but
like I said, it's a spinet.

I've neverheard a spinet with much of a low A note. It's working against
you from the gitgo. Can't you just Autotune it in post? g

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

I need to get my kids a new piano - I know... but they cost a bit more
then I can squeeze out of my beer budget :-) I keep waiting for
someone to their "old" unwanted Steinway.

I have a good friend that is a charter captain, took someone out for a
3 hour daysail and as a tip got a C7 with full midi because the lady
was painting her living room and it was no longer going to match! I
get a little sick every time I think about that.....

The design constraints of a spinet will surely prevent anything but average
sound from one.
It's all physics.
I don't think I have ever played a decent Spinet.

For good pianos, look for estate sales/auctions.
A friend of mine picked up a wonderful Mason Hamlin that just needed some
TLC, and he got it for nothing...
IOW take it away and it's yours.

As for your kids, the purists are going to kill me, but 40+ years of
playing professionally and I do own a very nice Steinway B with Renner
action, (I prefer Renner, some people like Steinway action) *I* would
purchase a nice digital piano or better yet a controller, like a Roland, a
PC and Ivory or maybe Garritan Steinway (anyone heard that one yet?)....

It will sound more like a "real piano", you know the kind you hear on
records (smile) to your kids than anything in your budget.

Hook it up to a decent power amplifier and some reasonable monitors,
Mackie, Event, Dynaudio etc and you will have a very nice sounding piano.

Even a good home audio system will do if volume is kept moderate.

All for a lot less than a quality piano will cost you.
Unless of course you find a fire sale and then I say go for it!

Much better than you would be able to afford on a beer budget and the best
part is with headphones you don't have to hear the noise.

Also your kid can play at 2 AM if the creative juices happen to be flowing.

Don't get me wrong, I love playing my Steinway, but I also love playing the
Ivory pianos and they are stunningly realistic sounding and the playability
approaches a real piano, as long as you have a good weighted controller.

One of the most frustrating things for young pianists is the fact that
their playing does not sound like the records they hear.
Tuning, voicing, acoustics of the home etc all play into that.

Seriously, has anyone ever heard a home piano sound like the "juiced
pianos" that Libarace or Peter Nero use/used?


You know that "supersonic" piano sound.

Of course not, yet that is typical on most non classical recordings.

Elton John's couple of test chords in the Bennie and the Jets song is
another example.

So anyway, that's my advice.


--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org

[Moshe Goldfarb.]

On 1 Oct 2008 12:32:17 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:


Oh yeah.... and avoid anything that came out of a church. Unless it started
out as a really high-end piano and it is basically free.
--scott

Yep.

Mostly because the church is not heated 24x7.....
Less important is little Johnny banging out "Heart and Soul" every time he
sees the piano unlocked.


--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org

[Chris]

shut up and play your guitar

Speaking of Frank Zappa, remember this one:
http://www.deezer.com/track/198454 ?


Chris

[hank alrich]

Chris wrote:

shut up and play your guitar

Speaking of Frank Zappa, remember this one:
http://www.deezer.com/track/198454 ?


Chris

Mr. Smalt! Long time no read! I hope your journey has been fruitful and
safe!

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

[Moshe Goldfarb.]

On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 20:00:42 -0700 (PDT), Chris wrote:

shut up and play your guitar

Speaking of Frank Zappa, remember this one:
http://www.deezer.com/track/198454 ?


Chris

Grrrrr....

Hahahahahahah!

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org

[Peter A. Stoll[_2_]]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in
:

Oh yeah.... and avoid anything that came out of a church. Unless it
started out as a really high-end piano and it is basically free.

True. But another source which would really frighten me would be rehearsal
room pianos--from anywhere that actually uses heavily. They may well be
maintained better than the typical church piano, and probably have not
suffered as much from temperature cycling, but they get played a whole lot
more, which eventually puts the action in a state from which real money
paid to a competent technician is required to make it acceptable again.

[Chris]

Hank wrote:

I hope your journey has been fruitful and safe!


Still underway, so too soon to tell. But while still rather involved
with the Caribbean franchise of the Axis of Evil, I u-turned back to
music playing baby bass (the dead kind) and the occasional upright.
So you can say I saw the Light and finally found the True Path to
plucking Stringed Instruments. Picture he http://www.salsaband-
axioma.nl/Content/bandleden/Chris.jpg

Every once in a while I accidentally hit on Google Groups and check
the main page of rec.audio.pro, It's always a joy to post some off-
topic comments to an otherwise very interesting thread.

I am more and more unhappy about the work of the tuners I hire in all
registers of the piano, so it makes me wonder if my hearing is the
problem, not theirs. These days I play mostly salsa - loud music with
digital pianos without stretched tuning. On the other hand, on CDs I
hear plenty of well-in-tune pianos. And I never play unprotected (all
hail the ER-15).


Chris