[H Davis]

I need a source of objective (not commercially influenced) information, such
as an audio market Consumer Reports if one exists, on the stereo receivers
now on the market. Due to past experience I would not consider Harman-Kardon
products or any with vacuum tubes.

Thank you for any information you can provide.

[Sonnova]

On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:57:10 -0700, H Davis wrote
(in article ):

I need a source of objective (not commercially influenced) information, such
as an audio market Consumer Reports if one exists, on the stereo receivers
now on the market. Due to past experience I would not consider Harman-Kardon
products or any with vacuum tubes.

Thank you for any information you can provide.



They're all pretty much the same these days. Choose on reliability
reputation, power requirements, features needed, and price.

Just out of curiosity, what's your objection to Harmon-Kardon? I have one of
their A/V receivers in my video system (at the time it was their
top-of-the-line AVR-7000). I have had it for a number of years and have found
it excellent. It sounds fine, is very flexible and has gobs of power. It has
not given me a second of trouble in all the years that I have owned it.

[H Davis]

"Sonnova" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:57:10 -0700, H Davis wrote
(in article ):

I need a source of objective (not commercially influenced) information,
such
as an audio market Consumer Reports if one exists, on the stereo
receivers
now on the market. Due to past experience I would not consider
Harman-Kardon
products or any with vacuum tubes.

Thank you for any information you can provide.

They're all pretty much the same these days. Choose on reliability
reputation, power requirements, features needed, and price.

Thanks for the reply.
The problem is, where does one find unbiased information on reliability, and
a comparative listing of features and prices?

Just out of curiosity, what's your objection to Harmon-Kardon? I have one
of
their A/V receivers in my video system (at the time it was their
top-of-the-line AVR-7000). I have had it for a number of years and have
found
it excellent. It sounds fine, is very flexible and has gobs of power. It
has
not given me a second of trouble in all the years that I have owned it.

You are fortunate. I bought the Harman-Kardon HK3475 receiver several years
ago. It arrived with a scratched-up plastic faceplate that looks like
vandalism by a disgruntled employee. The remote control was almost useless
due to a design defect; they sent at least 4 replacements, all with the same
problems, until they finally redesigned it and sent me a new one that was
usable though still not completely defect-free. All along they claimed there
was no design defect, but as an electronics engineer I knew otherwise. I do
not respect liars!

Can you believe that a manufacturer of high-end equipment would leave out
the inexpensive feature of a stereo-mono switch? Harman-Kardon did! And now,
due to a bad relay contact or an electronic switching problem, the left
channel disappears from time to time. I must turn the power off and on again
to get it back. Rather than fix this lemon I will replace it - but NOT with
a Harman-Kardon product!

[bob]

On Sep 25, 4:33=A0pm, "H Davis" wrote:

The problem is, where does one find unbiased information on reliability, =
and
a comparative listing of features and prices?

Stereo receivers fly way below the radar these days, so independent
info is thin. For reliability, all you've got is trial and error. For
features, check the individual makers' sites, or major sellers like
J&R and Crutchfield.

You are fortunate. I bought the Harman-Kardon HK3475 receiver several yea=
rs
ago. It arrived with a scratched-up plastic faceplate that looks like
vandalism by a disgruntled employee. The remote control was almost useles=
s
due to a design defect; they sent at least 4 replacements, all with the s=
ame
problems, until they finally redesigned it and sent me a new one that was
usable though still not completely defect-free. All along they claimed th=
ere
was no design defect, but as an electronics engineer I knew otherwise. I =
do
not respect liars!

This might be indicative of a general problem, or it might be specific
to one model. No way to know.

Can you believe that a manufacturer of high-end equipment would leave out
the inexpensive feature of a stereo-mono switch? Harman-Kardon did!

Mono-stereo switches are becoming less common in general. Check the
individual units. If you really need one, you might have to go for an
integrated amp (and not all of them have one, either) plus a separate
tuner.

bob

[Sonnova]

On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:33:04 -0700, H Davis wrote
(in article ):

"Sonnova" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:57:10 -0700, H Davis wrote
(in article ):

I need a source of objective (not commercially influenced) information,
such
as an audio market Consumer Reports if one exists, on the stereo
receivers
now on the market. Due to past experience I would not consider
Harman-Kardon
products or any with vacuum tubes.

Thank you for any information you can provide.

They're all pretty much the same these days. Choose on reliability
reputation, power requirements, features needed, and price.

Thanks for the reply.
The problem is, where does one find unbiased information on reliability, and
a comparative listing of features and prices?

Just out of curiosity, what's your objection to Harmon-Kardon? I have one
of
their A/V receivers in my video system (at the time it was their
top-of-the-line AVR-7000). I have had it for a number of years and have
found
it excellent. It sounds fine, is very flexible and has gobs of power. It
has
not given me a second of trouble in all the years that I have owned it.

You are fortunate. I bought the Harman-Kardon HK3475 receiver several years
ago. It arrived with a scratched-up plastic faceplate that looks like
vandalism by a disgruntled employee. The remote control was almost useless
due to a design defect; they sent at least 4 replacements, all with the same
problems, until they finally redesigned it and sent me a new one that was
usable though still not completely defect-free. All along they claimed there
was no design defect, but as an electronics engineer I knew otherwise. I do
not respect liars!

Can you believe that a manufacturer of high-end equipment would leave out
the inexpensive feature of a stereo-mono switch? Harman-Kardon did! And now,
due to a bad relay contact or an electronic switching problem, the left
channel disappears from time to time. I must turn the power off and on again
to get it back. Rather than fix this lemon I will replace it - but NOT with
a Harman-Kardon product!



Was your HK3475 built in China by any chance? The transfer of manufacturing
from Japan to China caused teething problems for more than a few electronics
manufacturers, it seems.

[H Davis]

"Sonnova" wrote in message
...

[quoted text deleted -- deb]

Was your HK3475 built in China by any chance? The transfer of
manufacturing
from Japan to China caused teething problems for more than a few
electronics
manufacturers, it seems.

If it was made in China, I don't recall it being labelled as such. I can
understand why - China can't even make chairs properly! I would expect a
manufacturer such as Harman-Kardon to maintain quality control, no matter
where they manufacture. And there is NO excuse for feature omissions and
design defects!

[H Davis]

"Dick Pierce" wrote in message
...
H Davis wrote:
You are fortunate.

Well, unless you can show your experience is common,
I would say instead that you were unfortunate. From my own
expereince in dealing with probably a lot more units than
you, I'd say your experience does not represent the norm.
That expeirence suggest that HK quality and reliability is
no worse than the industry average.

I bought the Harman-Kardon HK3475 receiver several years
ago. It arrived with a scratched-up plastic faceplate that looks like
vandalism by a disgruntled employee.

Undoubtedly, you did not buy it directly from HK, so who's
to say it wasn't the dealer or distributor who was responsible?
How do you know, for example, whoever you actually bought it
from didn't take a customer return or demo, reseal it and ship
it to you?

I ordered it online, as I recall. It appeared to be original factory
packaging.

And what did you do about it? Did you complain? Did you get
it replaced? I would have, right away. If I didn't get satisfaction,
I would have called my credit card compnay. That'd get their
attention in a hurry.

The scratches were not visible from a distance, so I let that matter slide.
I DID raise hell over the defective remote control, and they sent
replacement after replacement, all similarly defective until they redesigned
it. What reputable company sends out defective equipment and denies it is
defective until, months later, they correct the defects?

Much of what you say suggests that your beef, which I am sure
is legitimate, lies with who you bought it from, not from who
made it.

The remote control was almost useless
due to a design defect; they sent at least 4 replacements, all with
the same
problems, until they finally redesigned it and sent me a new one that
was
usable though still not completely defect-free. All along they
claimed there
was no design defect, but as an electronics engineer I knew
otherwise. I do
not respect liars!

Remote controls themselves are design defects. Especially the
manufacturer-supplied ones. I got a logitec for Christmas, threw
out all the manufacturer remotes and havent had a problem since.

Yes, those remotes often go bad - usually it's the contacts.
I can use a good remote that could be programmed for my old Hitachi TV.
Have any more info on the Logitech remote?

Can you believe that a manufacturer of high-end equipment would leave
out
the inexpensive feature of a stereo-mono switch? Harman-Kardon did!

Can you believe that a manufacturer of high-end equipment
would leave out a balance control? Some do!

High-end?? If so, that term has become meaningless.

Can you believe that a manufacturer of high-end equipment
would leave out the other channle? Some do!

Say again? Do you mean a monaural amp?

Can you also believe that at under $400 for 110 watts/channel,
hardly anyone would consider it a "high-end" receiver?

I wasn't aware of any such standard.
Output power alone comes cheap, but there is much more to "high-end" than
that, in my opinion.

And now, due to a bad relay contact or an electronic
switching problem, the left channel disappears from
time to time. I must turn the power off and on again
to get it back. Rather than fix this lemon I will
replace it - but NOT with a Harman-Kardon product!

Did you do anything to deal with your various compaints?

Not beyond many frustrating phone calls and related runarounds, during which
I was told I'd be sent a replacement remote, but that there was no design
defect in them. Amazing how they lied again and again with a straight face!
If for no reason other than that, no more Harman-Kardon products for me ever
again! Not all audiophiles are fools that would buy a crummy tube preamp for
$20,000, or believe the blatant lies and phoney claims of manufacturers and
retailers.

[H Davis]

"Dick Pierce" wrote in message
...
H Davis wrote:
You are fortunate.

Well, unless you can show your experience is common,
I would say instead that you were unfortunate. From my own
expereince in dealing with probably a lot more units than
you, I'd say your experience does not represent the norm.
That expeirence suggest that HK quality and reliability is
no worse than the industry average.

I bought the Harman-Kardon HK3475 receiver several years
ago. It arrived with a scratched-up plastic faceplate that looks like
vandalism by a disgruntled employee.

Undoubtedly, you did not buy it directly from HK, so who's
to say it wasn't the dealer or distributor who was responsible?
How do you know, for example, whoever you actually bought it
from didn't take a customer return or demo, reseal it and ship
it to you?

I ordered it online, as I recall. It appeared to be original factory
packaging.

And what did you do about it? Did you complain? Did you get
it replaced? I would have, right away. If I didn't get satisfaction,
I would have called my credit card compnay. That'd get their
attention in a hurry.

The scratches were not visible from a distance, so I let that matter slide.
I DID raise hell over the defective remote control, and they sent
replacement after replacement, all similarly defective until they redesigned
it. What reputable company sends out defective equipment and denies it is
defective until, months later, they correct the defects?

Much of what you say suggests that your beef, which I am sure
is legitimate, lies with who you bought it from, not from who
made it.

The remote control was almost useless
due to a design defect; they sent at least 4 replacements, all with
the same
problems, until they finally redesigned it and sent me a new one that
was
usable though still not completely defect-free. All along they
claimed there
was no design defect, but as an electronics engineer I knew
otherwise. I do
not respect liars!

Remote controls themselves are design defects. Especially the
manufacturer-supplied ones. I got a logitec for Christmas, threw
out all the manufacturer remotes and havent had a problem since.

Yes, those remotes often go bad - usually it's the contacts.
I can use a good remote that could be programmed for my old Hitachi TV.
Have any more info on the Logitech remote?

Can you believe that a manufacturer of high-end equipment would leave
out
the inexpensive feature of a stereo-mono switch? Harman-Kardon did!

Can you believe that a manufacturer of high-end equipment
would leave out a balance control? Some do!

High-end?? If so, that term has become meaningless.

Can you believe that a manufacturer of high-end equipment
would leave out the other channle? Some do!

Say again? Do you mean a monaural amp?

Can you also believe that at under $400 for 110 watts/channel,
hardly anyone would consider it a "high-end" receiver?

I wasn't aware of any such standard.
Output power alone comes cheap, but there is much more to "high-end" than
that, in my opinion.

And now, due to a bad relay contact or an electronic
switching problem, the left channel disappears from
time to time. I must turn the power off and on again
to get it back. Rather than fix this lemon I will
replace it - but NOT with a Harman-Kardon product!

Did you do anything to deal with your various compaints?

Not beyond many frustrating phone calls and related runarounds, during which
I was told I'd be sent a replacement remote, but that there was no design
defect in them. Amazing how they lied again and again with a straight face!
If for no reason other than that, no more Harman-Kardon products for me ever
again! Not all audiophiles are fools that would buy a crummy tube preamp for
$20,000, or believe the blatant lies and phoney claims of manufacturers and
retailers.

[Jim Gibson[_2_]]

In article , Dick Pierce
wrote:

H Davis wrote:
Remote controls themselves are design defects. Especially the
manufacturer-supplied ones. I got a logitec for Christmas, threw
out all the manufacturer remotes and havent had a problem since.

Yes, those remotes often go bad - usually it's the contacts.
I can use a good remote that could be programmed for my old Hitachi TV.
Have any more info on the Logitech remote?

Got to logitech.com and look up there Harmony universal remotes.
Unlike typical "universal" that take a lot of effort and guess
work to get them to work right, these guys are a cinch to program:
you hook them via USB up to your compputer, run the supplied software,
and select the exact model and manufacturer for each piece you have.
Once done, they're trivially easy to use: no more confuing device
selection to control sub-functions. Only downside is the one I have
chews through batteries like they're going out of style.

I've got one that has a rechargeable battery and lives in its charging
cradle, so no problems (yet) with battery life. It replaces 5 remotes
for Tivo, Blu-Ray player, TV, DVD/SACD/CD player, and A/V Control
Center.

Of the current line-up ($100-$500), all but the cheapest are
rechargeable.

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/remotes/universal_remotes/&cl=us,en

--
Jim Gibson

[H Davis]

"Dick Pierce" wrote in message
...
H Davis wrote:
Not beyond many frustrating phone calls

To whom: the manufacturer or the dealer you bought it from?

The manufacturer of course - Harman Kardon.

and related runarounds, during which

With whom: the manufacturer or the dealer you bought it from?

Harman-Kardon.

I was told I'd be sent a replacement remote, but that there was no design
defect in them. Amazing how they lied again and again with a straight
face!

"Them" who? "They" who? The dealer of the manufacturer?

Harman-Kardon.

If for no reason other than that, no more Harman-Kardon products for me
ever
again! Not all audiophiles are fools that would buy a crummy tube preamp
for
$20,000, or believe the blatant lies and phoney claims of manufacturers
and
retailers.

Who were you dealing with?

Harman-Kardon.

[Steven Sullivan]

H Davis wrote:
"Dick Pierce" wrote in message
...
H Davis wrote:
You are fortunate.

Well, unless you can show your experience is common,
I would say instead that you were unfortunate. From my own
expereince in dealing with probably a lot more units than
you, I'd say your experience does not represent the norm.
That expeirence suggest that HK quality and reliability is
no worse than the industry average.

I bought the Harman-Kardon HK3475 receiver several years
ago. It arrived with a scratched-up plastic faceplate that looks like
vandalism by a disgruntled employee.

Undoubtedly, you did not buy it directly from HK, so who's
to say it wasn't the dealer or distributor who was responsible?
How do you know, for example, whoever you actually bought it
from didn't take a customer return or demo, reseal it and ship
it to you?

I ordered it online, as I recall. It appeared to be original factory
packaging.

Was it ordered from an authorized online HK seller?
If not it may well have been 'grey market', and possibly repackaged.


--
-S
We have it in our power to begin the world over again - Thomas Paine

[Norman Schwartz]

On Oct 6, 10:57=A0am, Steven Sullivan wrote:
H Davis wrote:
"Dick Pierce" wrote in message
...
H Davis wrote:
You are fortunate.

Well, unless you can show your experience is common,
I would say instead that you were unfortunate. From my own
expereince in dealing with probably a lot more units than
you, I'd say your experience does not represent the norm.
That expeirence suggest that HK quality and reliability is
no worse than the industry average.

I bought the Harman-Kardon HK3475 receiver several years
ago. It arrived with a scratched-up plastic faceplate that looks li=
ke
vandalism by a disgruntled employee.

Undoubtedly, you did not buy it directly from HK, so who's
to say it wasn't the dealer or distributor who was responsible?
How do you know, for example, whoever you actually bought it
from didn't take a customer return or demo, reseal it and ship
it to you?
I ordered it online, as I recall. It appeared to be original factory
packaging.

Was it ordered from an authorized online HK seller?
If not it may well have been 'grey market', and possibly repackaged.

Since the OP reported numerous written, verbal(?) and physical
exchanges (of his defective RC) with H-K, I think all that could only
have taken place if it were purchased from an authorzied dealer.

Norman