[yirgster]

I have a Classe CAP-101 integrated amp, matched with Thiel 1.5
speakers. I would like to front the unit with a passive preamp, not
expensive, and I'm (1) wondering if there are some recs, and (2) how
much coloration I could expect, both in general and specifically.

Here's why:

I have a long standing problem with the remote control of the unit.

The problem is with the IR unit inside the amp, not in the hand-held
control. It's not a totally consistent problem, but most often it
doesn't work at all. When it does work it's after the unit has been
off
quite a while. After some time, or not a lot of time, it will stop
working again.

I don't think it's the hand unit because I've tried three of them
with
the same result.

Called Classe, was told to call B&W, and spoke to someone who was
knowledgeable and helpful. He said the obvious: they could fix the
unit but couldn't estimate the cost until they did. In answer to my
question he said that the average repair for the CAP-101 runs about
$500.

A local pro shop which I trust said "We quote a fairly high labor
range for these because they can be complex. We will reduce it at our
discretion but the initial estimate would be $126-$332 parts and
labor."

As an alternative (and because I don't like the the Classe remote), I
thought of fronting the CAP-101 with a passive preamp as there's no
amp in on the CAP-101.

My theory (hope?) is that the passive preamp, since it doesn't mess
with the line signal, will provide the volume control, source line
switching, and perhaps tone control. And, of course, a remote.

Any thoughts most appreciated!

[Sonnova]

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 06:07:04 -0700, yirgster wrote
(in article ):

I have a Classe CAP-101 integrated amp, matched with Thiel 1.5
speakers. I would like to front the unit with a passive preamp, not
expensive, and I'm (1) wondering if there are some recs, and (2) how
much coloration I could expect, both in general and specifically.

Here's why:

I have a long standing problem with the remote control of the unit.

The problem is with the IR unit inside the amp, not in the hand-held
control. It's not a totally consistent problem, but most often it
doesn't work at all. When it does work it's after the unit has been
off
quite a while. After some time, or not a lot of time, it will stop
working again.

I don't think it's the hand unit because I've tried three of them
with
the same result.

Called Classe, was told to call B&W, and spoke to someone who was
knowledgeable and helpful. He said the obvious: they could fix the
unit but couldn't estimate the cost until they did. In answer to my
question he said that the average repair for the CAP-101 runs about
$500.

A local pro shop which I trust said "We quote a fairly high labor
range for these because they can be complex. We will reduce it at our
discretion but the initial estimate would be $126-$332 parts and
labor."

As an alternative (and because I don't like the the Classe remote), I
thought of fronting the CAP-101 with a passive preamp as there's no
amp in on the CAP-101.

My theory (hope?) is that the passive preamp, since it doesn't mess
with the line signal, will provide the volume control, source line
switching, and perhaps tone control. And, of course, a remote.

Any thoughts most appreciated!


Doubtful that a passive "preamp" will have tone controls, as they have an
insertion loss. Never saw one with a remote control, but they will have
source switching and volume. But, and here's the catch.... Every passive
preamp I've ever encountered costs more than either estimate to repair your
Classe CAP-101. These passive units are high-ticket items. I know, I know,
there's nothing in them, but the market for these things is the real
"tweaky", neurotic high-end, apparently.

[yirgster]

On Oct 20, 4:24=A0pm, Sonnova wrote:
On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 06:07:04 -0700, yirgster wrote
(in article ):



I have a Classe CAP-101 integrated amp, matched with Thiel 1.5
speakers. I would like to front the unit with a passive preamp, not
expensive, and I'm (1) wondering if there are some recs, and (2) how
much coloration I could expect, both in general and specifically.

Here's why:

I have a long standing problem with the remote control of the unit.

The problem is with the IR unit inside the amp, not in the hand-held
control. It's not a totally consistent problem, but most often it
doesn't work at all. When it does work it's after the unit has been
off
quite a while. After some time, or not a lot of time, it will stop
working again.

I don't think it's the hand unit because I've tried three of them
with
the same result.

Called Classe, was told to call B&W, and spoke to someone who was
knowledgeable and helpful. He said the obvious: they could fix the
unit but couldn't estimate the cost until they did. In answer to my
question he said that the average repair for the CAP-101 runs about
$500.

A local pro shop which I trust said "We quote a fairly high labor
range for these because they can be complex. We will reduce it at our
discretion but the initial estimate would be $126-$332 parts and
labor."

As an alternative (and because I don't like the the Classe remote), I
thought of fronting the CAP-101 with a passive preamp as there's no
amp in on the CAP-101.

Thanks for your response.

There are a few small passive preamps that have a remote. They are
expensive enough, without, as you point out any apparent reason, that
I'm not interested, except that:

My younger son, an audiophile headphone junkie, while looking for
something else, spied this new unit: the MASS Pre Amplifier from
Audiophile Products. http://www.audiophileproducts.com/masspreamp

It has two inputs. No tone control, but does come with a remote. I'd
use a splitter to get a 3rd input line.

It's $217 which I'm more than willing to go for.

Here's my question though: will it, or is it likely to, color the
sound, and if so by how much when it's fed into the preamp section of
my Classe CAP-101 integrated amp? Ballpark of course.


My theory (hope?) is that the passive preamp, since it doesn't mess
with the line signal, will provide the volume control, source line
switching, and perhaps tone control. And, of course, a remote.

Any thoughts most appreciated!

Doubtful that a passive "preamp" will have tone controls, as they have an
insertion loss. Never saw one with a remote control, but they will have
source switching and volume. But, and here's the catch.... Every passive
preamp I've ever encountered costs more than either estimate to repair yo=
ur
Classe CAP-101. These passive units are high-ticket items. I know, I know=
,
there's nothing in them, but the market for these things is the real
"tweaky", neurotic high-end, apparently. =A0

[Arny Krueger]

"yirgster" wrote in message


There are a few small passive preamps that have a remote.
They are expensive enough, without, as you point out any
apparent reason, that I'm not interested, except that:

My younger son, an audiophile headphone junkie, while
looking for something else, spied this new unit: the MASS
Pre Amplifier from Audiophile Products.
http://www.audiophileproducts.com/masspreamp

It has two inputs. No tone control, but does come with a
remote. I'd use a splitter to get a 3rd input line.

It's $217 which I'm more than willing to go for.

Here's my question though: will it, or is it likely to,
color the sound, and if so by how much when it's fed into
the preamp section of my Classe CAP-101 integrated amp?
Ballpark of course.

I did some checking, and found that this has the potential to be a
fine-sounding product.

Its *active ingredient* is the TI PGA 2310 chip,

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pga2310.pdf

This is a chip with a purely analog signal path which has:

Two Independent Audio Channels

Serial Control Interface

Zero Crossing Detection

WIDE GAIN AND ATTENUATION RANGE:

+31.5dB to -95.5dB with 0.5dB Steps

120dB Dynamic Range

0.0004% THD+N at 1kHz

Crosstalk -126dBFS

NOISE-FREE LEVEL TRANSITIONS

This chip is apparently a replacement for the CS 3310, a Crystal
Semiconductor chip that has been used as the keystone of high end audio
controllers over over a decade, including one by Jeff Roland. If memory
serves, the PGA 2310 outperforms the CS3310 by about an order of magnitude
(10 times!). This is all good. The zero-crossing feature should give it an
audibly silky smoothness when you change its functioning.

I can't guarantee that the performance of the core chip in the MASS audio
controller wasn't screwed up when they put it together, but the potential
for extremely good sound quality is there. You presumably have the option of
listening to your son's, which I would heartily recommend. If it sounds good
to you, it might be a very worthwhile investment both now, and for the
foreseeable future.

[yirgster]

On Oct 23, 5:21=A0am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"yirgster" wrote in message


[ excessive quoting snipped -- dsr ]



I can't guarantee that the performance of the core chip in the MASS audio
controller wasn't screwed up when they put it together, but the potential
for extremely good sound quality is there. You presumably have the option=
of
listening to your son's, which I would heartily recommend. If it sounds g=
ood
to you, it might be a very worthwhile investment both now, and for the
foreseeable future.

Thank you very much!!! I'm ordering it. Maybe I can get it from amazon
so easy return if it doesn't work out.

Can't listen to my son's though because he doesn't have one. He saw it
while browsing for other stuff and thought it might do the job.