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  #1   Report Post  
Blind Joni
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

I need to upgrade an existing machine. It is an ABIT MOBO running a Celeron
1.3 with old PC100 ram.
1. Can I replace the MOBO and Processor with a new one running a P4, probably a
3.0 or so..it needs to be an Intel processor.
2. What kind of RAM do I need for this combo.
3. Can I use the same "C" drive meaning leave the old drive in with it's
operating system..XP Pro...how do I have to reset for the new MOBO/CPU.
I know I need to get someone to do the work I'm not qualified to do..I just
want to get an idea what I need so I can price out the upgrade.

thanks,

John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
  #2   Report Post  
Thomas Bishop
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

"Blind Joni" wrote in message
I know I need to get someone to do the work I'm not qualified to do..I

just
want to get an idea what I need so I can price out the upgrade.


Why don't you go to your nearest computer store and ask them? If you're
going to have someone else do it for you why do you want us to explain it in
such detail?


  #3   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

"Blind Joni" wrote in message

I need to upgrade an existing machine.


It is an ABIT MOBO running a Celeron 1.3 with old PC100 ram.


1. Can I replace the MOBO and Processor with a new one running a P4,
probably a 3.0 or so..it needs to be an Intel processor.


The old motherboard should be an ATX-format motherboard - that's an industry
standard that just about everybody but people like Compaq adhere to quite
closely.

A new ATX-format motherboard should fit in the same ATX-format chassis. You
will probably need to swap out the thin metal plate where the keyboard and
port connectors are exposed, and you may need to add or subtract or move
some of the standoffs that the motherboard screws into. Some alterations of
the wiring to the front-panel switches and lights may be required.

2. What kind of RAM do I need for this combo.


At least 256 megs of whatever the new motherboard takes. If someone tries to
strong-arm you into 512 megs, and cash isn't excruciatingly tight, let him
have his way.

3. Can I use the same "C" drive meaning leave the old drive in with
it's operating system..XP Pro...


You can't swap motherboards willy-nilly and expect XP to boot with the new
motherboard. There's a blue screen (BSOD) that is well-known to occur -
0x0000007B as I recall, if the new motherboard differs too much from the old
one.

What is "differs too much"? Well swapping in a AMD CPU on a VIA or NVIDIA
chipset motherboard for an old Intel chipset motherboard is IME often "too
much". YMMV. There are some workarounds that are possible and can work out
great, because I've done what I just said might be impossible, a number of
times.

You'll have to reactivate XP because it will detect the changes and throw a
hissy-fit. MS will let you reactivate as a matter of policy, but you may
have to make a phone call. The goal is to convince the person at MS that
this is a true upgrade, and not a clone of one OS license onto two PCs.

However, if you replace a fairly new (2-3 year old) Intel chipset
motherboard with a brand new Intel chipset motherboard, you have a pretty
good chance of the machine getting through its first boot. Similarly, if you
replace a fairly new (2-3 year old) VIA/AMD chipset motherboard with a
brand new VIA/AMD chipset motherboard, you have a pretty good chance of the
machine getting through its first boot, as well.

I recommend that going into the swap, apply all the latest MS XP patches
and XP SP1, if you haven't already done so. Also, do a full Chkdsk and
Defrag of the hard drive with the old motherboard, unless it has become very
unstable.

You're usually coasting down hill after you get to the desktop on the first
boot. XP will then automatically tailor itself for the new motherboard. You
may have to use the new motherboard's driver disk to get complete support
for all the peripherals on the new motherboard. I can think of cases where
you might be able to smooth the process by loading all the drivers for the
new motherboard while the system is still running on the old motherboard,
but there are cases where the driver setup program won't allow this. Check
the new motherboard's documentation carefully.

how do I have to reset for the new MOBO/CPU.


XP will handle most of it automatically. It will probably handle enough
automatically so that you have enough of a working system to manually load
any drivers that XP doesn't handle automatically.

I know I need to get someone to do the work I'm not
qualified to do..I just want to get an idea what I need so I can
price out the upgrade.


If there is good planning and reasonable compatibility between the new and
old motherboards, a motherboard/CPU upgrade is no big deal - maybe an hour's
work. If things go wrong, the job may never be able to be completed *right*
and you're back down to doing a clean install. Always backup everything of
value before you touch the screwdriver the first time.



  #4   Report Post  
Justin Ulysses Morse
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

In summary, you'll save yourself a lot of hassle if you simply back up
your documents, reformat your hard drive, and re-install a fresh coat
of Windows XP.

ulysses

In article , Arny Krueger
wrote:

"Blind Joni" wrote in message

I need to upgrade an existing machine.


It is an ABIT MOBO running a Celeron 1.3 with old PC100 ram.


1. Can I replace the MOBO and Processor with a new one running a P4,
probably a 3.0 or so..it needs to be an Intel processor.


The old motherboard should be an ATX-format motherboard - that's an industry
standard that just about everybody but people like Compaq adhere to quite
closely.

A new ATX-format motherboard should fit in the same ATX-format chassis. You
will probably need to swap out the thin metal plate where the keyboard and
port connectors are exposed, and you may need to add or subtract or move
some of the standoffs that the motherboard screws into. Some alterations of
the wiring to the front-panel switches and lights may be required.

2. What kind of RAM do I need for this combo.


At least 256 megs of whatever the new motherboard takes. If someone tries to
strong-arm you into 512 megs, and cash isn't excruciatingly tight, let him
have his way.

3. Can I use the same "C" drive meaning leave the old drive in with
it's operating system..XP Pro...


You can't swap motherboards willy-nilly and expect XP to boot with the new
motherboard. There's a blue screen (BSOD) that is well-known to occur -
0x0000007B as I recall, if the new motherboard differs too much from the old
one.

What is "differs too much"? Well swapping in a AMD CPU on a VIA or NVIDIA
chipset motherboard for an old Intel chipset motherboard is IME often "too
much". YMMV. There are some workarounds that are possible and can work out
great, because I've done what I just said might be impossible, a number of
times.

You'll have to reactivate XP because it will detect the changes and throw a
hissy-fit. MS will let you reactivate as a matter of policy, but you may
have to make a phone call. The goal is to convince the person at MS that
this is a true upgrade, and not a clone of one OS license onto two PCs.

However, if you replace a fairly new (2-3 year old) Intel chipset
motherboard with a brand new Intel chipset motherboard, you have a pretty
good chance of the machine getting through its first boot. Similarly, if you
replace a fairly new (2-3 year old) VIA/AMD chipset motherboard with a
brand new VIA/AMD chipset motherboard, you have a pretty good chance of the
machine getting through its first boot, as well.

I recommend that going into the swap, apply all the latest MS XP patches
and XP SP1, if you haven't already done so. Also, do a full Chkdsk and
Defrag of the hard drive with the old motherboard, unless it has become very
unstable.

You're usually coasting down hill after you get to the desktop on the first
boot. XP will then automatically tailor itself for the new motherboard. You
may have to use the new motherboard's driver disk to get complete support
for all the peripherals on the new motherboard. I can think of cases where
you might be able to smooth the process by loading all the drivers for the
new motherboard while the system is still running on the old motherboard,
but there are cases where the driver setup program won't allow this. Check
the new motherboard's documentation carefully.

how do I have to reset for the new MOBO/CPU.


XP will handle most of it automatically. It will probably handle enough
automatically so that you have enough of a working system to manually load
any drivers that XP doesn't handle automatically.

I know I need to get someone to do the work I'm not
qualified to do..I just want to get an idea what I need so I can
price out the upgrade.


If there is good planning and reasonable compatibility between the new and
old motherboards, a motherboard/CPU upgrade is no big deal - maybe an hour's
work. If things go wrong, the job may never be able to be completed *right*
and you're back down to doing a clean install. Always backup everything of
value before you touch the screwdriver the first time.



  #5   Report Post  
Mike Rivers
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!


In article writes:

I need to upgrade an existing machine. It is an ABIT MOBO running a Celeron
1.3 with old PC100 ram.
1. Can I replace the MOBO and Processor with a new one running a P4, probably a
3.0 or so..it needs to be an Intel processor.


You can replace the motherboard as long as your power supply can
handle the load. A faster processor (and probalby the additional
memory that you'll add at the same time) will draw more current. This
is something that you can't usually predict because there are too many
variables, so be prepared to also replace the power supply if
necessary.

2. What kind of RAM do I need for this combo.


Whatever the mother board takes. It may or may not be the same as you
already have. My bet is that you'll need different RAM also. You may
find that you'll want to upgrade the graphics card while you're at it,
and maybe put in a DVD writing drive, and a little this and that.

What kind of barrier are you running into with your 1.3 GHz system
now? I'd think that would be good enough for most work. If I had a
system running at that speed, I think I'd be inclined to hold out a
little longer, and then just replace the whole computer. That's what
I've been saying about the 266 MHz system I have.

3. Can I use the same "C" drive meaning leave the old drive in with it's
operating system..XP Pro...


Windows XP keeps track of all the hardware that's running under it.
Chances are that when you boot up with your new hardware, it will
think that you've installed that copy on another computer (which,
essentially you have) and will want to be re-authorized. I think that
Microsoft is pretty liberal about this and you may need to go to the
web site or use the phone to get a new authorization code. Just
another Windows annoyance, but I guess one that they found necessary
since in the old days, people would somehow obtain one copy of an
operating system and install it on every computer they have.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo


  #6   Report Post  
Roger W. Norman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

I don't think you need to worry John. Any Intel based mobo will probably do
fine, but the new SiS chipsets seem to kick some butt as far as bus
throughtput. Check out www.tomshardware.com and read some of the newer
information on the P4 Extended Edition chip which is supposed (seemingly it
does) with the Athlong 64 bit chip. Hell, I'm even considering switching
back to an Intel so I don't have to worry about VIA chipset problems with my
MOTU.

But as far as RAM, etc., you'll find out on the website. And there are some
interesting downloadable videos of systems being tested on the site. Yank
the fan, most Athlons fry. Yank the fan on an Intel and it politely cuts
off without burning out.

And I'm an Athlon guy! g

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Blind Joni" wrote in message
...
I need to upgrade an existing machine. It is an ABIT MOBO running a

Celeron
1.3 with old PC100 ram.
1. Can I replace the MOBO and Processor with a new one running a P4,

probably a
3.0 or so..it needs to be an Intel processor.
2. What kind of RAM do I need for this combo.
3. Can I use the same "C" drive meaning leave the old drive in with it's
operating system..XP Pro...how do I have to reset for the new MOBO/CPU.
I know I need to get someone to do the work I'm not qualified to do..I

just
want to get an idea what I need so I can price out the upgrade.

thanks,

John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637



  #7   Report Post  
Roger W. Norman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

And oh yeah, I think I don't have to tell you about power supplies and such.
You know how to make a new one work. Have you talked to Jim Roseberry
)? He might have something for you.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Blind Joni" wrote in message
...
I need to upgrade an existing machine. It is an ABIT MOBO running a

Celeron
1.3 with old PC100 ram.
1. Can I replace the MOBO and Processor with a new one running a P4,

probably a
3.0 or so..it needs to be an Intel processor.
2. What kind of RAM do I need for this combo.
3. Can I use the same "C" drive meaning leave the old drive in with it's
operating system..XP Pro...how do I have to reset for the new MOBO/CPU.
I know I need to get someone to do the work I'm not qualified to do..I

just
want to get an idea what I need so I can price out the upgrade.

thanks,

John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637



  #9   Report Post  
Blind Joni
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

I know I need to get someone to do the work I'm not qualified to do..I
just
want to get an idea what I need so I can price out the upgrade.


Why don't you go to your nearest computer store and ask them? If you're
going to have someone else do it for you why do you want us to explain it in
such detail?


I just said I need to price it out..I am very short on funds so I need to know
as close as possible what I am doing..plus the store guys know **** about
audio.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
  #10   Report Post  
Blind Joni
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

A good approach if all you have on the drive is the OS and some
documents, but if you have three DAW programs, a bunch of plug-ins, a
web browser, a mail program, an Office program (with associated
directories where they expect to find stuff), and a pile of utilities
that you never remember you had until you need one, there's a mighty
good argument for not having to re-install and re-configure
everything.


This was my thought also.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637


  #11   Report Post  
Blind Joni
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!


You'll need a p4 compatible PSU though - I doubt the old one is.


How can I tell if it is compatable..I installed a new one not long ago?


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
  #12   Report Post  
Blind Joni
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

What kind of barrier are you running into with your 1.3 GHz system
now? I'd think that would be good enough for most work. If I had a
system running at that speed, I think I'd be inclined to hold out a
little longer, and then just replace the whole computer. That's what
I've been saying about the 266 MHz system I have.


I'm getting rid of my digital mixer and outboard gear and mixing "in the
box"..I've done this a few times in the last few months and it is easier, and
sounds better I think.
I do HipHOp but also rock band demos and full projects using Samplitude 7.12.
With the freeze function in Samplitude there is really no overhead if I do
things a certain way..I really love the realtime room simulator reverb and need
to run 2 or more instances live until I get the mix tweaked and I just want to
give myself some breathing room and be stable for 6 months to a year...got a
lot of other outside work to do and want to streamline the process as much as
possible.
I need to keep my older drives as I have current projects on them ..trying to
do as simple a swap as I can. I need to add a DVD drive right away so I figured
a partial upgrade was worth the investment.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
  #13   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

"Mike" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in
:

"Blind Joni" wrote in message

I need to upgrade an existing machine.


It is an ABIT MOBO running a Celeron 1.3 with old PC100 ram.


1. Can I replace the MOBO and Processor with a new one running a P4,
probably a 3.0 or so..it needs to be an Intel processor.


The old motherboard should be an ATX-format motherboard - that's an
industry standard that just about everybody but people like Compaq
adhere to quite closely.

A new ATX-format motherboard should fit in the same ATX-format
chassis. You will probably need to swap out the thin metal plate


You'll need a p4 compatible PSU though - I doubt the old one is.


True. Since I've built nothing but AMD boxes for the past three or so years,
those two extra connectors are just something that I have to ty-wrap out of
the way.


  #14   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

"Blind Joni" wrote in message

You'll need a p4 compatible PSU though - I doubt the old one is.


How can I tell if it is compatible..I installed a new one not long
ago?



P4-compatible power supplies have two extra connectors. One looks like a
refugee from an old AT-type power supply and the other has 4 pins arranged
in a square.


  #15   Report Post  
Mike Rivers
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!


In article writes:

Why don't you go to your nearest computer store and ask them?


I just said I need to price it out..


You can go to a computer store and price it out without buying.

Maybe that's wishful thinking, though. We used to have a few shops
around here where you could sit down with someone and tell them what
you wanted the computer to do, what constraints you had (including
budget), and requirements (like no VIA chipset motherboard if you plan
to use certain audio hardware and believe what your read on the net)
and they'd come up with a list of parts that they'll make work if you
let them put it together. You can take it or leave it. Unfortunately I
think that most of those shops have gone the way of the ice cream
parlor.

However, nobody knows better than a computer shop what you'll need to
make a complete system and what at least the components that they sell
will cost. You can shave a few dollars by buying the same mother board
and memory and CPU and case and graphics board and disk drives for
half a dozen on-line services, but then where are you going to take it
to put it all together and make it work. You already said that you
would need help. Best to line up that help up front.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo


  #16   Report Post  
Blind Joni
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

However, nobody knows better than a computer shop what you'll need to
make a complete system and what at least the components that they sell
will cost. You can shave a few dollars by buying the same mother board
and memory and CPU and case and graphics board and disk drives for
half a dozen on-line services, but then where are you going to take it
to put it all together and make it work. You already said that you
would need help. Best to line up that help up front.



I have someone to put it together, I just want to find out what I need to work
with certain companies hardware based on my own and others first hand
experience. I have done this 3 times before...i want to be as educated as I can
so when the computer geek gets here and says "I can make this work better with
brand "X" so and so I know how and why to say "no" just do what I tell you
to...please!!!




John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
  #18   Report Post  
Blind Joni
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

Wring it
out good, and then resist, really really resist adding more to it.


Learned mynlesson on this long ago..you're right.

You might consider a removable drive bay in your new computer.


I have had this for years..works great and saves a bunch of time. that's why I
want to keep as much as I can.




John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
  #19   Report Post  
Dan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

A year ago or so I had a couple of lengthy telephone conversations
with a fellow in NYC named Yoshi Kobari on exactly this topic. His
website is www.kobaristudio.com. He was very polite and helpful, and
went way out of his way to brainstorm with me on how to upgrade an
existing machine as cheaply as possible. He builds and sells DAW
computers professionally. Maybe give him a call. I ended up just
living with what I had, so I cannot say how his service is, but his
phone advice was very useful.

best of luck,

d


(Blind Joni) wrote in message ...
I need to upgrade an existing machine. It is an ABIT MOBO running a Celeron
1.3 with old PC100 ram.
1. Can I replace the MOBO and Processor with a new one running a P4, probably a
3.0 or so..it needs to be an Intel processor.
2. What kind of RAM do I need for this combo.
3. Can I use the same "C" drive meaning leave the old drive in with it's
operating system..XP Pro...how do I have to reset for the new MOBO/CPU.
I know I need to get someone to do the work I'm not qualified to do..I just
want to get an idea what I need so I can price out the upgrade.

thanks,

John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

  #20   Report Post  
Glenn Booth
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

Hi,

In message znr1069169736k@trad, Mike Rivers
writes

In article
writes:

In summary, you'll save yourself a lot of hassle if you simply back up
your documents, reformat your hard drive, and re-install a fresh coat
of Windows XP.


A good approach if all you have on the drive is the OS and some
documents, but if you have three DAW programs, a bunch of plug-ins, a
web browser, a mail program, an Office program (with associated
directories where they expect to find stuff), and a pile of utilities
that you never remember you had until you need one, there's a mighty
good argument for not having to re-install and re-configure
everything.


I don't know if it's common knowledge, but the XP CD has a buried option
called "File and settings transfer wizard" that can be of some help with
this. The idea is that you put the CD in the drive on your existing
system, fire up the wizard, and it creates a file that contains your
Operating System settings and your files (along with their locations on
the drive(s) ). You then run it again on your shiny new install of XP,
and it reinstalls the backup data. It's far from perfect, but it works
okay once you learn how to drive it.

The downside is that it wants to backup *all* your files (i.e. every
drive), so you have to remove or otherwise disable any non-O/S drives
that you don't want it to touch (data drives, and so on). You can't
specify which files to backup by drive letter, which is a serious
omission in my view.

Also, if you have any applications with corrupt or dodgy settings on
your existing drive, it will happily copy these same dodgy settings to
your new drive, which can defeat the object.

The option is in the 'perform other tasks' section of the XP Pro CD. I
don't use XP home, but I believe it works the same way.
--
Glenn Booth


  #21   Report Post  
Glenn Booth
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

Hi,

In message , Blind Joni
writes

You'll need a p4 compatible PSU though - I doubt the old one is.


How can I tell if it is compatable..I installed a new one not long ago?


It should be labelled "ATX-12V" if it's P4 compatible.

Regards,

--
Glenn Booth
  #22   Report Post  
Mike Rivers
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!


In article writes:

I don't know if it's common knowledge, but the XP CD has a buried option
called "File and settings transfer wizard" that can be of some help with
this. The idea is that you put the CD in the drive on your existing
system, fire up the wizard, and it creates a file that contains your
Operating System settings and your files (along with their locations on
the drive(s) ). You then run it again on your shiny new install of XP,
and it reinstalls the backup data. It's far from perfect, but it works
okay once you learn how to drive it.

The downside is that it wants to backup *all* your files


How does it do that? Does it keep asking you to feed it CDs? That
sounds like an all day project.

I don't know all the pitfalls, but I think what I'd be inclined to do
is to temporarily install the drive intended for the new computer in
the old computer, and use the utility that comes with just about ever
new disk drive to copy everything from the old drive to the new one
(including the OS and all the settings). Then, I'd put that clone in
the new computer, boot it up, and do an OS upgrade (if that's what I
wanted). This is what I did when I upgraded a computer (but didn't
change any hardware other than the disk drive) from Win95 to Win98 and
it worked fine. It was comforting to know that in case something
didn't work and I needed to use the "old" computer, I could stick the
original drive in it and be back to where I started.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
  #23   Report Post  
Glenn Booth
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

Hi,

In message znr1069509822k@trad, Mike Rivers
writes

The downside is that it wants to backup *all* your files


How does it do that? Does it keep asking you to feed it CDs? That
sounds like an all day project.


You can put the backup on any local or network drive. I usually save it
to a network drive, but I have also used removable drives (USB or 1394)
and in a pinch, I just saved it to the local system drive, then
temporarily put that drive in the new system to copy the stuff back off.

I don't know all the pitfalls, but I think what I'd be inclined to do
is to temporarily install the drive intended for the new computer in
the old computer, and use the utility that comes with just about ever
new disk drive to copy everything from the old drive to the new one
(including the OS and all the settings).


Yep, that works too, and it gives some peace of mind. I only ever get
OEM drives though, so I don't see those utilities. I guess there is a
potential pitfall in that putting the old OS onto the new machine can
cause problems, especially if you use it to boot from. It could have
different chipset inf files, drivers etc. that might cause it to fail to
boot.

Then, I'd put that clone in
the new computer, boot it up, and do an OS upgrade (if that's what I
wanted). This is what I did when I upgraded a computer (but didn't
change any hardware other than the disk drive) from Win95 to Win98 and
it worked fine.


95 to 98 isn't such a big deal, as they are both kind of DOS based.
Win2k and XP can be more problematic, especially since MS seem to change
to version of NTFS at every opportunity. Booting a new machine to be
faced with a blue screen announcing a 'kernel error' followed by a bunch
of codes that the Microsoft knowledge base claims to know nothing about
can be seriously frustrating. I've been there too many times.

It was comforting to know that in case something
didn't work and I needed to use the "old" computer, I could stick the
original drive in it and be back to where I started.


Agreed; there is no such thing as too many backups, but you knew that.

--
Regards,
Glenn Booth
  #24   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
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Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

"Glenn Booth" wrote in message


95 to 98 isn't such a big deal, as they are both kind of DOS based.


Agreed. One of my goals has been to get to the point where I can take all or
most of the liberties with XP, that I took with Win98.

Win2k and XP can be more problematic, especially since MS seem to
change to version of NTFS at every opportunity.


The more serious problem is that these OS's require that enough drivers to
get the hard drive rolling *must* be built-into the OS kernel, generic
drivers mostly not allowed. This differs greatly from NT4 and Win95/98, for
example.

Booting a new machine
to be faced with a blue screen announcing a 'kernel error' followed
by a bunch of codes that the Microsoft knowledge base claims to know
nothing about can be seriously frustrating.


The KBase has had articles about the codes that I've seen under these
conditions. However, the quick translation of the article often nets out to:
You're screwed!

I've been there too many times.


Me too, but I've got some tricks that can be used to move on.




  #25   Report Post  
Mike Rivers
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!


Glenn Booth writes:

I guess there is a
potential pitfall in that putting the old OS onto the new machine can
cause problems, especially if you use it to boot from. It could have
different chipset inf files, drivers etc. that might cause it to fail to
boot.


Any version of Windows since 95 will boot in the "safe" mode without
any special drivers. That would be enough to get it to see the CD with
the new version of Windows. Once that starts cranking, it should load
all the drivers it needs for the hardware that it finds. This is why
it's a good idea to start this procedure with a clone of a working (on
an older OS) drive rather than just stick that drive in the new
computer and update it. At least you still have a working drive if the
update fails.

95 to 98 isn't such a big deal, as they are both kind of DOS based.
Win2k and XP can be more problematic, especially since MS seem to change
to version of NTFS at every opportunity.


Good thought. And in fact, there may be an advantage to using NTFS in
an audio machine.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo


  #26   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1069525158k@trad
Glenn Booth writes:

I guess there is a
potential pitfall in that putting the old OS onto the new machine can
cause problems, especially if you use it to boot from. It could have
different chipset inf files, drivers etc. that might cause it to
fail to boot.


Any version of Windows since 95 will boot in the "safe" mode without
any special drivers. That would be enough to get it to see the CD with
the new version of Windows. Once that starts cranking, it should load
all the drivers it needs for the hardware that it finds. This is why
it's a good idea to start this procedure with a clone of a working (on
an older OS) drive rather than just stick that drive in the new
computer and update it. At least you still have a working drive if the
update fails.

95 to 98 isn't such a big deal, as they are both kind of DOS based.
Win2k and XP can be more problematic, especially since MS seem to
change to version of NTFS at every opportunity.


Good thought. And in fact, there may be an advantage to using NTFS in
an audio machine.


IMO, make that more than a *might*. While FAT32 can in theory manage large
hard drives, in practice FAT32 gets awkward for drives larger than some
loosely-defined *barrier* which I put some place around 40 GB.

The most obvious very practical advantage of NTFS is that you can pull-the
plug on XP and not have any reason at all to run Scandisk the next time you
boot. In fact, if you ever see CHKDSK running in XP, it's a probable sign of
hardware or driver failure.

Also, NTFS is not the only practical advantage for XP. We are quickly
evolving into a world where WDM is the prevailing OS-level audio interface.
The *best* implementation of WDM has arguably been in XP since Service Pack
1, if not before.

If you support certain kinds of USB devices, XP is also advantageous. For
example, if you have XP the increasingly-popular memory-chips-on-a-key-ring
work without loading a special driver. The generic XP driver is fine. Not
so with Win98 ME or SE. You have to load a special driver from *someplace*,
and all the ones I know of are product-specific. That means three different
drivers per machine, if you have three people who want to carry files around
on three different ones.


  #28   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
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Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1069597984k@trad
In article
writes:

The most obvious very practical advantage of NTFS is that you can
pull-the plug on XP and not have any reason at all to run Scandisk
the next time you boot.


I know that's true that you can just power down an XP machine, but I
didn't realize it was because of the NTFS.

Speaking of semi-modern operating systems, how do you make a bootable
floppy on Win2000? On XP, there's a check box for it in the Format
dialog box, but it isn't there on Win2K. When I looked in the Win2K
help, it describes how to make a set of four basic installation disks
from the CD, but not how to just make a boot-to-DOS floppy. There's
"related topics" but clicking on that gives me an error message which
suggests that not all of the help is installed (or something is
corrupted) on my machine.


First question is what OS do you want that floppy to boot.

When you check the box in XP, you end up with a bootable floppy for Window
ME which can be problematical or not depending on your application.

It turns out that any diskette formatted normally on an XP or Win2k system
is in some sense bootable. However, it lacks what it takes to boot something
useful. However, if you copy a few files onto it, namely NTLDR,
NTDETECT.COM and BOOT.INI you get a floppy that will boot a program that
will prompt you to boot predefined various OS kernels on just about any mass
storage device that is active at the time. The definitions are in BOOT.INI.
This methodology can be used to boot a NT or XP system that has somehow lost
its boot sector, master boot record, or the files I just named.


I think I asked this question before, and got an answer, but like
most information that I don't do very often, it's lost (or else
written down and files in a safe place, which is about the same). So
call me an idiot, but call me if you have the answer.


Basically in Win2K, if you want to format a disk that can boot a DOS-like
system, what you usually do is boot a disk that has that DOS-like system
system. Win98SE and later installation CDs will do that for you.

There is also a website
http://www.bootdisk.com/ that provides the means to
make bootable disks for any number of different legacy DOS and Unix-type
systems.



  #29   Report Post  
Mike Rivers
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!


In article writes:

Speaking of semi-modern operating systems, how do you make a bootable
floppy on Win2000?


First question is what OS do you want that floppy to boot.


DOS 6.22 would be nice. g I was talking someone with a Mackie
HDR24/96 through a "it won't boot" problem and I wanted to see if it
was able to boot from a floppy disk. I have a 6.2 boot floppy that I
keep around here for emergencies (and I know that will work on the
Mackie) but I didn't figure that he would. I discovered that making a
DOS boot floppy was an option on XP, so I made one, tried it on the
HDR24/96 and it worked. It even allowed me to look at the hard drive.

I first tried making a bootable floppy on the Win2K machine (because
that's where I was sitting at the time) and that's when I recognized
that the option wasn't available.

So, to answer your question, I don't really care. I just want to boot
a Pentium and be able to see a prompt. If I can see the hard drive,
that would be nice, too. The HDR uses FAT32 on the hard drive, so I
suppose that matters.

It turns out that any diskette formatted normally on an XP or Win2k system
is in some sense bootable. However, it lacks what it takes to boot something
useful. However, if you copy a few files onto it, namely NTLDR,
NTDETECT.COM and BOOT.INI you get a floppy that will boot a program that
will prompt you to boot predefined various OS kernels on just about any mass
storage device that is active at the time. The definitions are in BOOT.INI.


That's nice to know, but probably not appropriate in this instance.
What I was hoping for was an equivalent to the old "format a: /s" DOS
command.

There is also a website
http://www.bootdisk.com/ that provides the means to
make bootable disks for any number of different legacy DOS and Unix-type
systems.


Thanks. I think that's the answer I got last time I asked, probably
from you. I should bookmark that one. No, actually I should write it
down on paper. Bookmarks are different from computer to computer.
Paper is there as long as you can find it.





--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
  #30   Report Post  
Peter Larsen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

Mike Rivers wrote:

That's nice to know, but probably not appropriate in this instance.
What I was hoping for was an equivalent to the old "format a: /s" DOS
command.


There is also a website http://www.bootdisk.com/ that provides the means to
make bootable disks for any number of different legacy DOS and Unix-type
systems.


Thanks. I think that's the answer I got last time I asked, probably
from you. I should bookmark that one. No, actually I should write it
down on paper. Bookmarks are different from computer to computer.
Paper is there as long as you can find it.


Any household should have a handful of win98se boot disks or if such are
not available win me boot disks.

I'm really Mike Rivers - )



Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********


  #32   Report Post  
S O'Neill
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!

Peter Larsen wrote:
Any household should have a handful of win98se boot disks or if such are
not available win me boot disks.


I used to use blank preformatted ones. Don't have to erase them.

  #33   Report Post  
Mike Rivers
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help Upgrading PC Please!!!


In article writes:

Speaking of semi-modern operating systems, how do you make a bootable
floppy on Win2000?


http://www.computerhope.com/boot.htm#07

I know that. It answers the question "how do you make a bootable Win2K
disk?" and it actually makes 4 disks. I guess that's what you need to
boot a computer to Win2K, but I just wanted to book a computer to any
old DOS so I could see if it was possible to boot it. bootdisk.com
provides a utility to make a bootable floppy for just about any
version of DOS no matter what version of DOS you have.

Now the next question is how do you make a DOS bootable floppy if you
have a Mac?

This whole business came up when I was trying to help someone
troubleshoot his Mackie HDR24/96 that wouldn't boot from the hard
drive. He tried to reload the software (the procedure is that you boot
from a floppy) and that floppy wouldn't boot either. But the HDR24/96
has a history of not booting from a Mackie OS floppy that you create
by downloading a self-extracting file from their web site and
extracting it to a pair of floppys. I wanted to see if the problem was
with his download, with the floppy drive itself, or if there was a
motherboard problem that kept it from booting from anything.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
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