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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
I was in a local music store the other day and noticed they had one of
those Carillon computers in the keyboard department. For those that don't recall, these are the low noise rackmount units that were/are heavily advertised in mags and are distributed by Wave Distribution. There was some other background noise going on in the room (some keyboard amps hissing, other computers) but I stuck my head right up to the Carillon chassis and heard nothing, I mean it was dead quiet. Oh yeah it was turned on g Seems like it would be a more viable solution to the PC DAW noise issue than buying one of those $1000 insulated boxes to put your DAW in. If you want quiet, I'd check one of these out, but I have no idea about the performance of the machines, but given the other stuff that Gil distributes, I suspect these things are pretty decent. Analogeezer |
#2
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
Geezer,
Seems like it would be a more viable solution to the PC DAW noise issue than buying one of those $1000 insulated boxes to put your DAW in. Yes, but don't discount Dell, who makes very quiet computers for a more reasonable price. My previous and current Dells were/are quiet enough that I've never needed a sound proof box, and I record soft acoustic instruments in the same room with no problem. Just another angle on this. --Ethan |
#3
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
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#4
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1057511655k@trad In article "Ethan Winer" ethan at ethanwiner dot com writes: Yes, but don't discount Dell, who makes very quiet computers for a more reasonable price. My previous and current Dells were/are quiet enough that I've never needed a sound proof box, and I record soft acoustic instruments in the same room with no problem. I have a couple of year old Dell desktop that I use for general purpose work and I'm impressed with how quiet it is. Speaking as one who builds and sells competitive computers, let me add that I wish I had reasonable access to some of the parts that Dell uses to make their computers quiet. I'd consider using it, or one like it, in the studio. I however keep hearing things about Dell (and admittedly about every other "appliance store" computer when the subject comes up) regarding the use of certain proprietary parts, IME much less so than Compaq, HP or IBM. that they don't like disk drives that don't come from Dell (how do they KNOW?), I've never seen that, and I've upgraded many a hard drive in a Dell. that the case doesn't lend itself to mounting multiple removable media drives, They make lots of different cases and if a person can't figure this out from pictures, they shouldn't be fooling with the guts of a computer. that even when disabled in the CMOS setup the sound card gets in the way (how do they do THAT?), Again I've never seen that, but doing it would be way to easy, I believe its called "a mistake". and so on. Some people like to badmouth their competition. If its deserved, that's one thing, but many of the complaints I hear may reflect on the technical expertise of the people who make them. If one of my customers wants a brand name computer Dell is one of the two national brands that I mention. I've had minimal problems working on Dells down the road. I trust you've had better luck than the people who may or may not have tried to use a Dell as a recording computer but who are suspicious of anything that they don't assemble themselves after months of Internet research yielding great results with now-obsolete components. Some people seem to reserve the right to live with their own mistakes. Plan "B" - have a computer from someone who knows what they are doing ('cause that's what they do) and have minimal mistakes to live with. |
#5
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
"Analogeezer" wrote in message om... I was in a local music store the other day and noticed they had one of those Carillon computers in the keyboard department. Saw a whole bunch of them at SMPTE in Sydney the other day. The case adds about $1000 AU to the cost of a machine, and they only sell them as whole systems. I just want to buy the case. Pat. |
#6
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Dell PCs for DAW use (was Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a CarillonComputer)
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1057511655k@trad In article "Ethan Winer" ethan at ethanwiner dot com writes: Yes, but don't discount Dell, who makes very quiet computers for a more reasonable price. My previous and current Dells were/are quiet enough that I've never needed a sound proof box, and I record soft acoustic instruments in the same room with no problem. I have a couple of year old Dell desktop that I use for general purpose work and I'm impressed with how quiet it is. Speaking as one who builds and sells competitive computers, let me add that I wish I had reasonable access to some of the parts that Dell uses to make their computers quiet. Agreed! They have nice ducting for their CPUs which obviates the need for a heatsink fan (and its attendant turbulence from the intersecting airflows inside your case.) I however keep hearing things about Dell (and admittedly about every other "appliance store" computer when the subject comes up) regarding the use of certain proprietary parts, IME much less so than Compaq, HP or IBM. Same experience here. that they don't like disk drives that don't come from Dell (how do they KNOW?), I've never seen that, and I've upgraded many a hard drive in a Dell. Its possible they had some of the same BIOS hackery in their SCSI array drives which prevented Compaq's RAID controllers from recognizing third party hard disks. that even when disabled in the CMOS setup the sound card gets in the way (how do they do THAT?), Again I've never seen that, but doing it would be way to easy, I believe its called "a mistake". I have some complaints about their IRQ routing options (or lack thereof) but I have those complaints about many motherboard manufacturers. Can I build comparable machines for less money? Of course. But some people want a national brand with in-house financing and for them I usually recommend Dell, at least for desktops. I'm really liking the recent IBM X-series servers, though... |
#7
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
"Ethan Winer" ethan at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
... Geezer, Seems like it would be a more viable solution to the PC DAW noise issue than buying one of those $1000 insulated boxes to put your DAW in. Yes, but don't discount Dell, who makes very quiet computers for a more reasonable price. My previous and current Dells were/are quiet enough that I've never needed a sound proof box, and I record soft acoustic instruments in the same room with no problem. Ethan, did your Dell get noisier over time? I had a real leaf blower before so when I got the Dell (which has just been a few weeks) it appeared almost silent but I'm pretty sure it's louder now (and not my imagination). The heat in the room hasn't changed so I don't think it's increased fan noise. All machinery gets louder usually as it ages but not this quick. |
#8
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
Mike,
certain proprietary parts What Arny said. I've had two Dells personally, and lots of experience with many Dells owned by friends that I've configured, optimized, etc. They are quiet, solid, and easy to work on and upgrade. I've installed new hard drives, replaced video cards, added memory and peripherals - you name it. Both times I bought a Dell I was going to build my own, but decided it just wasn't worth the hassle and risk to save a few hundred dollars. By "risk" I mean, if you build your own computer and something is incompatible or the performance is poor, who are you going to yell at? And compared to a computer from an audio specialist, a Dell is much less expensive. Of course, you have to know what you're doing to set up any computer properly. Which is why the audio specialists can charge what they do, for folks that can't be bothered. --Ethan |
#9
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
Ricky,
did your Dell get noisier over time? No, but I think I know what you're referring to. Many computers have variable speed fans that speed up and slow down slightly as needed. When I turn on my Dell in the morning it is very quiet, but after a few hours as the inside warms up the fan has to go faster to maintain a low temperature. Depending on the room temperature it sometimes stays that way or slows down again. --Ethan |
#10
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
In article "Ethan Winer" ethan at ethanwiner dot com writes: What Arny said. I've had two Dells personally, and lots of experience with many Dells owned by friends that I've configured, optimized, etc. They are quiet, solid, and easy to work on and upgrade. Both times I bought a Dell I was going to build my own, but decided it just wasn't worth the hassle and risk to save a few hundred dollars. That's why I bought a Dell when I needed another "office" computer. Actually I bought the last year's model or so from a used computer store, and got a fully working computer complete with Windows 2000 installation disks for less than I'd spend building one (admittedly twice as fast, but who needs that for word processing?) from parts. The guy at the store lectured me on the difference between the Dell "classes", Optiplex and the other one, and assured me that it was worth the extra $100 to get the Optiplex because it used higher quality parts and he's had zero returns on that model while a few of the others have come back and needed new power supplies. So I guess there's Dell and then there's Dell. Good to hear that there aren't any built-in roadblocks however. By "risk" I mean, if you build your own computer and something is incompatible or the performance is poor, who are you going to yell at? Exactly. On the other hand, if you add an audio I/O card to a brand name computer and find that it doesn't work due to an incompatability with something (which you haven't determined yet), you probably won't get much support from the computer manufacturer. And the sound card manufacturer may well tell you "Oh, a lot of users have had probelems with that computer." Of course you should have checked that out before hand, but few people have the foresight. Of course, you have to know what you're doing to set up any computer properly. Which is why the audio specialists can charge what they do, for folks that can't be bothered. No doubt secrets of the Divine Yo-Yo Brotherhood. I've seen and read dozens of articles and web sites on setting up your computer for audio and still I've never done anything that's made a difference, but then I have only a simple system and after learning how to force IRQs so the plug-and-play wouldn't mess with my Music Quest MIDI card, everything has worked as well as it needs to work. So I'm knocking on wood and resisting replacing the computer because I know everything will be different. -- I'm really Mike Rivers - ) |
#11
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
In article "Ethan Winer" ethan at ethanwiner dot com writes: did your Dell get noisier over time? Many computers have variable speed fans that speed up and slow down slightly as needed. When I turn on my Dell in the morning it is very quiet, but after a few hours as the inside warms up the fan has to go faster to maintain a low temperature. I discovered (after living with it for over a year) that the power supply fan in the Mackie hard disk recorder did that. I was beginning ot think I was imagining how quiet it was when, coming back into the studio from a break after working for a few hours, I would swear that the recorder was noisier than I remembered. I bypassed the thermostatic control, then slowed the fan down so that, when running at a constant speed, it still kept the exhaust air at a sensible and (apparently safe) temperature. It hasn't burned up in six months or so. Now it's very slightly noisier when I first turn it on, but still very quiet, and it doesn't change throughout the day. All in all a better working environment, I think. I got it down to the point where the disk drive was noisier than the fans, and now they're making quieter disk drives. Based on experience using them as removable drives in the Mackie, I'm going to replace the internal drive with a Maxtor Diamondmax. That should shut it up real good. -- I'm really Mike Rivers - ) |
#12
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
So I guess
there's Dell and then there's Dell. Good to hear that there aren't any built-in roadblocks however. Dell power supplies and mobo's are reverse wired so that if your PSU dies and you need another one, you need to buy one from Dell or else you'll short out your mobo. Regards, DJ Mike Rivers wrote in message news:znr1057594435k@trad... In article "Ethan Winer" ethan at ethanwiner dot com writes: What Arny said. I've had two Dells personally, and lots of experience with many Dells owned by friends that I've configured, optimized, etc. They are quiet, solid, and easy to work on and upgrade. Both times I bought a Dell I was going to build my own, but decided it just wasn't worth the hassle and risk to save a few hundred dollars. That's why I bought a Dell when I needed another "office" computer. Actually I bought the last year's model or so from a used computer store, and got a fully working computer complete with Windows 2000 installation disks for less than I'd spend building one (admittedly twice as fast, but who needs that for word processing?) from parts. The guy at the store lectured me on the difference between the Dell "classes", Optiplex and the other one, and assured me that it was worth the extra $100 to get the Optiplex because it used higher quality parts and he's had zero returns on that model while a few of the others have come back and needed new power supplies. So I guess there's Dell and then there's Dell. Good to hear that there aren't any built-in roadblocks however. By "risk" I mean, if you build your own computer and something is incompatible or the performance is poor, who are you going to yell at? Exactly. On the other hand, if you add an audio I/O card to a brand name computer and find that it doesn't work due to an incompatability with something (which you haven't determined yet), you probably won't get much support from the computer manufacturer. And the sound card manufacturer may well tell you "Oh, a lot of users have had probelems with that computer." Of course you should have checked that out before hand, but few people have the foresight. Of course, you have to know what you're doing to set up any computer properly. Which is why the audio specialists can charge what they do, for folks that can't be bothered. No doubt secrets of the Divine Yo-Yo Brotherhood. I've seen and read dozens of articles and web sites on setting up your computer for audio and still I've never done anything that's made a difference, but then I have only a simple system and after learning how to force IRQs so the plug-and-play wouldn't mess with my Music Quest MIDI card, everything has worked as well as it needs to work. So I'm knocking on wood and resisting replacing the computer because I know everything will be different. -- I'm really Mike Rivers - ) |
#13
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
"DJ" wrote in message
... So I guess there's Dell and then there's Dell. Good to hear that there aren't any built-in roadblocks however. Dell power supplies and mobo's are reverse wired so that if your PSU dies and you need another one, you need to buy one from Dell or else you'll short out your mobo. I'm not sure if they're "reverse wired" but I don't think it was done as a way to force you to buy from Dell (and that may not have been what you intended to infer). All other parts in their computers are pretty much off the shelf replaceable. I think it has to do with special features they offer on their computers (all kinds of neat things like a "traffic light" on the back of the computer for diagnosis). http://www.pcpowercooling.com/ sells PS's compatible with Dell and there's also a converter for about $5 (but I don't have the site) that will allow any PS to work with a Dell. |
#14
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
"DJ" wrote in message ... So I guess there's Dell and then there's Dell. Good to hear that there aren't any built-in roadblocks however. Dell power supplies and mobo's are reverse wired so that if your PSU dies and you need another one, you need to buy one from Dell or else you'll short out your mobo. That's quite a tale, and clearly not the global truth. I've replaced numerous Dell power supplies with generics, and I've even built a few shop beaters (used for testing parts and copying drives) with scrapped-out Dell power supplies and standard motherboards. A number of years ago it was pretty common to see odd power supplies, but most of the machines built in the last 3-5 years I've seen have had standard connectors. I can recall no exceptions among machines built in the last 3 years. IME the worst perps of odd power supplies were IBM and Compaq. IME Dell and Gateway always stuck very close to the standards. I can't say that there weren't some oddballs because obviously I haven't seen everything. I've recently done both power supply replacements and motherboard replacements Dells, Gateways, on even some fairly ordinary Compaqs. Needless to say, if there were PS connector problems I'd have had a lot more work to do! The area where standards are still missing relate to connectors for the front panel - lights, buttons, and ports. I've got some tricks for handling those situations, and can deliver a perfectly functional and stock-appearing upgraded box for a reasonable price. |
#15
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
Mike,
I bypassed the thermostatic control, then slowed the fan down Great hack! --Ethan |
#16
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
I bypassed the thermostatic control, then slowed the fan down
Great hack! Then again, I'm convinced that one of the main factors in my music computer working reliably (while others report problems) is mine having installed extra cooling, running full at blast. Fan noise is noticeable in a quite studio, but not a practical problem into the microphone. |
#17
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
In article "Ethan Winer" ethan at ethanwiner dot com writes: When I bought both Dells I told the salesperson what I was using it for, and that it had to work with my audio cards or I'd return it. That's more what I meant by avoiding "risk" because they HAVE to take it back if you don't like it. Dell seems to be perfecly willing to take things back. When I got my Dell laptop (the one I can't find a suitable case for), tried to enable Internet connection sharing, and couldn't get it to work, Dell was happy to take it back. In fact, when I called Customer Service after getting no satisfaction from Dell's tech support, the person had already pushed the "return" button before we finished our discussion. I had a return authorization and prepaid airbill on my doorstep the next morning. Then she offered me a router (free) which I cheerfully accepted (and I'm using) even though I was sure it wouldn't solve my problem (which it didn't). I finally found out from Microsoft that the reason why it didn't work is that I was using AOL and they didn't include the hooks for it. But the point is that Dell will indeed cheerfully take a return. However, my preference is to walk into a store, discuss my requirements with a knowledgable person, and walk out with something that will do the job right without having to fool with it too much, or discover on my own after a week's worth of experimentation and research, that it won't work and then return it. While I can't walk into a store and buy a Carillion computer, at least if I tell them what software and hardware I intend to use with it, they will make sure it works (even if I have to send them the software and hardware to install). At this point, and for the forseeable future, all I'm talking about is a Lynx L22 card and a USB MIDI interface, so that's pretty easy. It'll probably work right off the bat in just about any off-the-shelf computer. I've always done all the standard Win 98 - Win XP optimizations, and that's always made a HUGE difference in track count and eliminating dropouts. I do some of them just as a matter of course (maybe because I've read the articles) and since I don't record or play more than 2 tracks, it doesn't have to be very optimized, it just has to work. -- I'm really Mike Rivers - ) |
#18
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
In article "Ethan Winer" ethan at ethanwiner dot com writes: I bypassed the thermostatic control, then slowed the fan down Great hack! I'd write an article about this sort of stuff but I figure that the magazine would be bombarded with letters from computer manufacturers about voiding the warranty, not advisable because users don't have the facilities to make measurements to know if their systems are in the danger zone, they know better than we do, and so on. So better to just let it be an "I read on the Internet" kind of thing for those who are willing to take the risk. But plenty of overclockers take similar risks, and they even have their magazines. -- I'm really Mike Rivers - ) |
#19
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1057684113k@trad... In article "Ethan Winer" ethan at ethanwiner dot com writes: I bypassed the thermostatic control, then slowed the fan down Great hack! Ethan, how did you do this? |
#20
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
Ricky,
Ethan, how did you do this? I didn't do it, Mike did. --Ethan |
#21
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
In article "Ethan Winer" ethan at ethanwiner dot com writes: Ethan, how did you do this? I didn't do it, Mike did. Did not! We're talking about bypassing the fan's temperature sensor and slowing down the fan? Well, you find the temperature sensor, find where it connects to the fan, and wire across it. As far as slowing down the fan, the safest way to do this is to put a Zener diode in series with the motor. I used a 5.1 V Zener which left about 7 volts for the fan to run on. This is better than using a resistor since you'll always have 7 volts going to the fan regardless of how much current the fan draws - the voltage won't drop when the oil in the fan gums up, slowing it down further. I'm reluctant to say more about it because if you can't figure it out for yourself, you probably shouldn't risk your computer modifying it this way. -- I'm really Mike Rivers - ) |
#22
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
Mike Rivers wrote:
I'm reluctant to say more about it because if you can't figure it out for yourself, you probably shouldn't risk your computer modifying it this way. I suggest you immediately sell your house and move to an undisclosed location. -- ha |
#23
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1057781823k@trad In article "Ethan Winer" ethan at ethanwiner dot com writes: Ethan, how did you do this? I didn't do it, Mike did. Did not! We're talking about bypassing the fan's temperature sensor and slowing down the fan? Well, you find the temperature sensor, find where it connects to the fan, and wire across it. As far as slowing down the fan, the safest way to do this is to put a Zener diode in series with the motor. I used a 5.1 V Zener which left about 7 volts for the fan to run on. This is better than using a resistor since you'll always have 7 volts going to the fan regardless of how much current the fan draws - the voltage won't drop when the oil in the fan gums up, slowing it down further. Agreed. Even simpler is connecting the fan between +12 and +5, yielding 7 volts with zero parts. |
#24
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
Arny,
Even simpler is connecting the fan between +12 and +5, yielding 7 volts with zero parts. You continue to amaze me with your talent and cleverness. --Ethan |
#26
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
... "Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1057851731k@trad In article writes: Well, for nuttin', you can't expect for a full range of adjustment. If you want to spend money, you get a Zalman Fan Mate http://www.jacoltech.com/zafanma1adfa.html . Well that sounds like something I could handle. Does anyone know if this will work (and interface easily) with a Dell Dimension? |
#27
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
Even simpler is connecting the fan between +12 and +5, yielding 7 volts with zero parts. Be aware that there are still some 12v fans that won't always start with 7 volts. Although I usually use +5 and +12 leads for the power supply and cpu fans, I recently destroyed a PIII 750 when the fan just failed to start after running reliably for over a year. Back on 12 volts it spun fine. Frank /~ http://newmex.com/f10 @/ |
#28
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
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#29
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Saw/Heard (or didn't hear) a Carillon Computer
"Frank Vuotto" wrote in message
Even simpler is connecting the fan between +12 and +5, yielding 7 volts with zero parts. Be aware that there are still some 12v fans that won't always start with 7 volts. Of course. That's why they call them "12 volt fans". ;-) Although I usually use +5 and +12 leads for the power supply and cpu fans, I recently destroyed a PIII 750 when the fan just failed to start after running reliably for over a year. One takes risks, one occasionally looses... Back on 12 volts it spun fine. OK, but the fact that it once started at 7 volts and then stopped doing so was evidence that it was degrading appreciably. There are a couple of solutions. The best is to have something that automatically monitors chip temperatures and makes a fuss when things are going awry. Another (circumvention) would be to have a start up circuit that provides the full 12 volts for a second or two at start up to kick sticky fans loose. I could see doing this with a Zalmann Fan Mate-type device by simply paralleling it with a big electrolytic capacitor from input to output. |
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