Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
64-bit computing
I am thinking on getting a 64-bit Intel chip. Any prerequisites I should
know about? Do I need a special configuration/software/etc..I will mostly be running Reason and Cubase, and I think I will be getting an m-audio fireware sound system. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
On 6/24/2005 2:06 PM, donaldjcecil wrote:
I am thinking on getting a 64-bit Intel chip. Any prerequisites I should know about? Do I need a special configuration/software/etc..I will mostly be running Reason and Cubase, and I think I will be getting an m-audio fireware sound system. Go AMD. Shown to be better performance for audio.video. But what OS are you going to run? XP is still 32bit? |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Dan wrote:
On 6/24/2005 2:06 PM, donaldjcecil wrote: I am thinking on getting a 64-bit Intel chip. Any prerequisites I should know about? Do I need a special configuration/software/etc..I will mostly be running Reason and Cubase, and I think I will be getting an m-audio fireware sound system. Go AMD. Shown to be better performance for audio.video. But what OS are you going to run? XP is still 32bit? I have always heared AMD runs hot. Maybe that's not the case anymore. I will look into it. And I think there is a 64-bit XP..but dont quote me. I better just do some more research. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
On 6/24/2005 2:21 PM, donaldjcecil wrote:
Dan wrote: On 6/24/2005 2:06 PM, donaldjcecil wrote: I am thinking on getting a 64-bit Intel chip. Any prerequisites I should know about? Do I need a special configuration/software/etc..I will mostly be running Reason and Cubase, and I think I will be getting an m-audio fireware sound system. Go AMD. Shown to be better performance for audio.video. But what OS are you going to run? XP is still 32bit? I have always heared AMD runs hot. Maybe that's not the case anymore. I will look into it. And I think there is a 64-bit XP..but dont quote me. I better just do some more research. I think they have solved the Heat problems that were with one of the chips around 2003. In fact, I think Intel runs hotter on average now. Also, AMD64 processors can run 32bit software so they make migrating to 64 bit easier. But I don't know how much 64 bit software is out there in the windows world. You may want to wait until Windows64 is common place and the bugs have been worked out. I run a AMD64 server at home using Linux64 and have had no problems. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Dan wrote:
On 6/24/2005 2:21 PM, donaldjcecil wrote: Dan wrote: On 6/24/2005 2:06 PM, donaldjcecil wrote: I am thinking on getting a 64-bit Intel chip. Any prerequisites I should know about? Do I need a special configuration/software/etc..I will mostly be running Reason and Cubase, and I think I will be getting an m-audio fireware sound system. Go AMD. Shown to be better performance for audio.video. But what OS are you going to run? XP is still 32bit? I have always heared AMD runs hot. Maybe that's not the case anymore. I will look into it. And I think there is a 64-bit XP..but dont quote me. I better just do some more research. I think they have solved the Heat problems that were with one of the chips around 2003. In fact, I think Intel runs hotter on average now. Also, AMD64 processors can run 32bit software so they make migrating to 64 bit easier. The AMD and Intel 64bit implementations are for all intents and purposes identical to the outside world - I should know, I was a circuit designer on Prescott (the Intel 64bit Pentium 4) for a couple years. They will both run 32bit or 64bit code. They will in fact run the exact same code, with the exact same results. Performance differences will be dependent on a huge number of different issues - mostly relating to the application in question. -- Aaron |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
On 2005-06-24, donaldjcecil wrote:
Dan wrote: On 6/24/2005 2:06 PM, donaldjcecil wrote: I am thinking on getting a 64-bit Intel chip. Any prerequisites I should know about? Do I need a special configuration/software/etc..I will mostly be running Reason and Cubase, and I think I will be getting an m-audio fireware sound system. Go AMD. Shown to be better performance for audio.video. But what OS are you going to run? XP is still 32bit? I have always heared AMD runs hot. Maybe that's not the case anymore. I will look into it. And I think there is a 64-bit XP..but dont quote me. I better just do some more research. With AMD's 90nm process, it's Intel that runs hot. 120W vs. 70W, IIRC. -- André Majorel URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/ (Counterfeit: ) "J'baiserai la France jusqu'ŕ ce qu'elle m'aime." -- Un rappeur |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
donaldjcecil wrote:
Dan wrote: On 6/24/2005 2:06 PM, donaldjcecil wrote: I am thinking on getting a 64-bit Intel chip. Any prerequisites I should know about? Do I need a special configuration/software/etc..I will mostly be running Reason and Cubase, and I think I will be getting an m-audio fireware sound system. Go AMD. Shown to be better performance for audio.video. But what OS are you going to run? XP is still 32bit? There's a beta version of XP64 on MS's site, last time I looked. http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/6...ion/trial.mspx I have always heared AMD runs hot. Not so with XP64s. They are some of the coolest chips I've ever seen since the days of P3s and K6s. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... donaldjcecil wrote: Dan wrote: On 6/24/2005 2:06 PM, donaldjcecil wrote: I am thinking on getting a 64-bit Intel chip. Any prerequisites I should know about? Do I need a special configuration/software/etc..I will mostly be running Reason and Cubase, and I think I will be getting an m-audio fireware sound system. Go AMD. Shown to be better performance for audio.video. But what OS are you going to run? XP is still 32bit? There's a beta version of XP64 on MS's site, last time I looked. http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/6...ion/trial.mspx It's been released for a month or more now. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
donaldjcecil wrote:
I am thinking on getting a 64-bit Intel chip. Any prerequisites I should know about? Do I need a special configuration/software/etc..I will mostly be running Reason and Cubase, and I think I will be getting an m-audio fireware sound system. This seems like a bad idea. The Itanium runs like a slug in 32-bit mode, and none of those applications will run in native 64-bit mode. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Scott Dorsey wrote:
donaldjcecil wrote: I am thinking on getting a 64-bit Intel chip. Any prerequisites I should know about? Do I need a special configuration/software/etc..I will mostly be running Reason and Cubase, and I think I will be getting an m-audio fireware sound system. This seems like a bad idea. The Itanium runs like a slug in 32-bit mode, and none of those applications will run in native 64-bit mode. --scott i have always heard its not best to be on the forefront of technology. sounds like i should follow that advice. |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
donaldjcecil wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote: donaldjcecil wrote: I am thinking on getting a 64-bit Intel chip. Any prerequisites I should know about? Do I need a special configuration/software/etc..I will mostly be running Reason and Cubase, and I think I will be getting an m-audio fireware sound system. This seems like a bad idea. The Itanium runs like a slug in 32-bit mode, and none of those applications will run in native 64-bit mode. i have always heard its not best to be on the forefront of technology. sounds like i should follow that advice. No, it's fine to be on the forefront of technology if you're trying to do something that requires being there. Spending $8k on an Itanium machine to run your applications slower than a 486-50 would, though, seems like a bad match between application and system. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Scott Dorsey wrote:
donaldjcecil wrote: I am thinking on getting a 64-bit Intel chip. Any prerequisites I should know about? Do I need a special configuration/software/etc..I will mostly be running Reason and Cubase, and I think I will be getting an m-audio fireware sound system. This seems like a bad idea. The Itanium runs like a slug in 32-bit mode, and none of those applications will run in native 64-bit mode. I think you're forgetting the Intel 64 bit x86 part. -- Aaron |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
We're not talking Itamiums here are we?
A few things... (1) Windows XP 64 bit edition is now available, but you need to have 64-bit drivers for your sound card and all your hardware. (2) AMD64 Winchester and Venice cores run cool (less than 25 degrees Celcius on a 3200+) (3) Both Intel P4-64 bit and AMD64 processors run 32 bit applications every bit as well as 32 bit processors (4) You will need to get a 64-bit DAW environment to enjoy the benefits of 64-bit computing: Cakewalk has a free public beta available he http://www.cakewalk.com/x64/ They will probably be one of the first to market with a true 64-bit DAW application (5) There are quantifiable benefits in running a 64-bit DAW on a 64-bit OS with 64-bit plug-ins (6) Currently, 64-bit plugins are required, but AFAIK the VST plug-in architechture has not yet been ported to 64-bit, but DirectX has been. In case you are wondering, no I didn't read this stuff, I'm *doing* this stuff. There is no reason at all to shy away from either Intel's or AMD's 64-bit desktop processors right now. In the case of AMD, the AMD-64s are a generation later than the AMD-XPs and so run cooler and more efficiently, so even in a 32-bit environment you get some benefit. Hope this clears some stuff up. Bill. "Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ... This seems like a bad idea. The Itanium runs like a slug in 32-bit mode, and none of those applications will run in native 64-bit mode. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Bill Ruys wrote: (4) You will need to get a 64-bit DAW environment to enjoy the benefits of 64-bit computing: And what might those be for audio? I understand that the internal architecture of the 64 bit machines is better but is that lost when running them in 32 bit mode? Cakewalk has a free public beta available he http://www.cakewalk.com/x64/ They will probably be one of the first to market with a true 64-bit DAW application (5) There are quantifiable benefits in running a 64-bit DAW on a 64-bit OS with 64-bit plug-ins Due to what? All that extra data being passed over the bus (which is almost certainly zero in an audio app), and the probably longer instructions would only seem to me to incur a bandwidth penalty. I just can't see why going to 64 bits offers anything but potential penalties for audio. All it gives inherently is really big integers and addresses which are useful for database transaction processing machines with the requirement of _very_ large real memory, but how so for audio? Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Bob Cain wrote:
Bill Ruys wrote: (4) You will need to get a 64-bit DAW environment to enjoy the benefits of 64-bit computing: And what might those be for audio? I understand that the internal architecture of the 64 bit machines is better but is that lost when running them in 32 bit mode? Cakewalk has a free public beta available he http://www.cakewalk.com/x64/ They will probably be one of the first to market with a true 64-bit DAW application (5) There are quantifiable benefits in running a 64-bit DAW on a 64-bit OS with 64-bit plug-ins Due to what? All that extra data being passed over the bus (which is almost certainly zero in an audio app), and the probably longer instructions would only seem to me to incur a bandwidth penalty. I just can't see why going to 64 bits offers anything but potential penalties for audio. All it gives inherently is really big integers and addresses which are useful for database transaction processing machines with the requirement of _very_ large real memory, but how so for audio? Bob It might halve the number of bus cycles for transfers, but it's probably still PCI, which (SFAIK) is inherently 32 bit. I know of no 64 bit versions of PCI. *Shrug*? -- Les Cargill |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Les Cargill wrote: It might halve the number of bus cycles for transfers, but it's probably still PCI, which (SFAIK) is inherently 32 bit. I know of no 64 bit versions of PCI. *Shrug*? The memory/processor bus isn't PCI. It's much faster and much wider. I can't remember what it's called, though. My point is that no matter how wide or fast it is, shuffling more data (the upper word of long integers which will be zero for audio apps if used at all) through it can only be a penalty. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
On 2005-06-25, Bob Cain wrote:
Bill Ruys wrote: (4) You will need to get a 64-bit DAW environment to enjoy the benefits of 64-bit computing: And what might those be for audio? I understand that the internal architecture of the 64 bit machines is better but is that lost when running them in 32 bit mode? Cakewalk has a free public beta available he http://www.cakewalk.com/x64/ They will probably be one of the first to market with a true 64-bit DAW application (5) There are quantifiable benefits in running a 64-bit DAW on a 64-bit OS with 64-bit plug-ins Due to what? All that extra data being passed over the bus (which is almost certainly zero in an audio app), and the probably longer instructions would only seem to me to incur a bandwidth penalty. I just can't see why going to 64 bits offers anything but potential penalties for audio. All it gives inherently is really big integers and addresses which are useful for database transaction processing machines with the requirement of _very_ large real memory, but how so for audio? I think that, going from 32 bits to 64 bits on an x64-64 (not ia64, which is different), two things happen: (1) because addresses and certain integers double in size, you lose and (2) because you have more registers, you win. I'd like to see a benchmark. -- André Majorel URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/ (Counterfeit: ) "J'baiserai la France jusqu'ŕ ce qu'elle m'aime." -- Un rappeur |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Andre Majorel wrote: I think that, going from 32 bits to 64 bits on an x64-64 (not ia64, which is different), two things happen: (1) because addresses and certain integers double in size, you lose and (2) because you have more registers, you win. Ah, yes. I'd forgotten about the register increase. Hard to see that offseting the increased bandwidth requirement, however. I'd like to see a benchmark. Me too. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Bob Cain wrote:
Bill Ruys wrote: (4) You will need to get a 64-bit DAW environment to enjoy the benefits of 64-bit computing: And what might those be for audio? I understand that the internal architecture of the 64 bit machines is better but is that lost when running them in 32 bit mode? The Opteron is pretty fast when running in 32-bit mode. The Itanium is a total pig in 32-bit mode and you'd be happier with a 486-50. Cakewalk has a free public beta available he http://www.cakewalk.com/x64/ They will probably be one of the first to market with a true 64-bit DAW application (5) There are quantifiable benefits in running a 64-bit DAW on a 64-bit OS with 64-bit plug-ins Due to what? All that extra data being passed over the bus (which is almost certainly zero in an audio app), and the probably longer instructions would only seem to me to incur a bandwidth penalty. I just can't see why going to 64 bits offers anything but potential penalties for audio. All it gives inherently is really big integers and addresses which are useful for database transaction processing machines with the requirement of _very_ large real memory, but how so for audio? First of all, 64-bit floating point operations are a lot faster. That can be a big deal for some kinds of processing. (Double int operations are also faster but for audio stuff nobody cares.) Secondly, your address space is much larger, so now you can have an individual process greater than 4 Gb. (I don't know if this is true in Windows, but it is in a regular operating system and for most people it's the whole point of going 64-bits.) --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Scott Dorsey wrote: First of all, 64-bit floating point operations are a lot faster. That can be a big deal for some kinds of processing. (Double int operations are also faster but for audio stuff nobody cares.) That's almost got to be a 32 bit mode detuning. Hard to see why the operating mode should affect FP operations unless it was purposeful. Secondly, your address space is much larger, so now you can have an individual process greater than 4 Gb. (I don't know if this is true in Windows, but it is in a regular operating system and for most people it's the whole point of going 64-bits.) I just can't see, other than for large sample cache's, why an audio app would outgrow 32 bit addresses and require such massive real memory. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
A thought occured to me after sending that last respone off. Is it possible that there is an intentional, designed in penalty for running 32 bit mode? You know, marketing considerations and all that. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Bob Cain wrote:
A thought occured to me after sending that last respone off. Is it possible that there is an intentional, designed in penalty for running 32 bit mode? You know, marketing considerations and all that. Probably less the case than the fact that the 32-bit mode is usually just an afterthought. Remember when the vax came out? It had a 16-bit compatibility mode so you could run all your RSX-11 applications on it. An abacus would have been faster, but nobody was really expected to use 16-bit mode. It was only there to help you port your applications, and it disappeared from the architecture in a couple years. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
Bill Ruys wrote: snip (2) AMD64 Winchester and Venice cores run cool (less than 25 degrees Celcius on a 3200+) Which must mean they've reduced power consumption to something sensible. Any idea how many watts they consume ? Surely you don't *actually* mean 25C though. Ambient temp itself can easily be more than that ! snip (5) There are quantifiable benefits in running a 64-bit DAW on a 64-bit OS with 64-bit plug-ins Which means that until such a date that happens there's no clear benefit worth having of any note. Possibly other than the new CPUs having a 'cleaner' internal design that may give them a little extra efficiency processing some ( 32 bit ) instructions. Graham |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
Well, it *is* winter here right now, but yup, my Athlon64 *really* does run
at about 25 degrees with an ambient room temp of about 18 degrees C. My Athlon XP 3200 by comparison runs about 20 degrees hotter! So there must have been some real advances in core technology between the two types of chip. Not sure what the power comsumption is, but I do remember reading that the AMDs are currently consuming far less than the P4s. Bill. "Pooh Bear" wrote in message ... Bill Ruys wrote: snip (2) AMD64 Winchester and Venice cores run cool (less than 25 degrees Celcius on a 3200+) Which must mean they've reduced power consumption to something sensible. Any idea how many watts they consume ? Surely you don't *actually* mean 25C though. Ambient temp itself can easily be more than that ! snip (5) There are quantifiable benefits in running a 64-bit DAW on a 64-bit OS with 64-bit plug-ins Which means that until such a date that happens there's no clear benefit worth having of any note. Possibly other than the new CPUs having a 'cleaner' internal design that may give them a little extra efficiency processing some ( 32 bit ) instructions. Graham |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
|
#28
|
|||
|
|||
Mike Rivers wrote:
In article writes: In case you are wondering, no I didn't read this stuff, I'm *doing* this stuff. There is no reason at all to shy away from either Intel's or AMD's 64-bit desktop processors right now. But if it's necessary to accommodate "common" applications with a different software setup, chances are the hardware will be outdated by the time you're ready to pull the big switch. Possibly, but looking at it from the other point of view, the 64-bit hardware seems quite stable now. On the Intel side, 64-bit is a fairly new feature. But on the AMD side, you essentially cannot buy a processor that isn't 64-bit unless you go with a pretty old model. So, it seems that 64-bit is coming to the mainstream fairly soon. The point is, it's quite possible that the hardware will be outdated before some people want to run a 64-bit OS on it. On the other hand, it's also quite possible that the opposite will happen, and it'd be nice not to be forced into buying a new computer when the old hardware is still working well enough. - Logan |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
Logan Shaw wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote: In article writes: In case you are wondering, no I didn't read this stuff, I'm *doing* this stuff. There is no reason at all to shy away from either Intel's or AMD's 64-bit desktop processors right now. But if it's necessary to accommodate "common" applications with a different software setup, chances are the hardware will be outdated by the time you're ready to pull the big switch. Possibly, but looking at it from the other point of view, the 64-bit hardware seems quite stable now. On the Intel side, 64-bit is a fairly new feature. But on the AMD side, you essentially cannot buy a processor that isn't 64-bit unless you go with a pretty old model. So, it seems that 64-bit is coming to the mainstream fairly soon. The point is, it's quite possible that the hardware will be outdated before some people want to run a 64-bit OS on it. On the other hand, it's also quite possible that the opposite will happen, and it'd be nice not to be forced into buying a new computer when the old hardware is still working well enough. That'll be the day ! I'm sure Microsoft will find some way of sapping the computing power too. Graham |
#31
|
|||
|
|||
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1119698340k@trad... In article writes: (1) Windows XP 64 bit edition is now available, but you need to have 64-bit drivers for your sound card and all your hardware. (3) Both Intel P4-64 bit and AMD64 processors run 32 bit applications every bit as well as 32 bit processors So does this mean that during a transistion period, if we buy a 64-bit CPU, we'll need two versions of Windows if we want to experiment with the new technology as well as getting our day-to-day work done? That sounds like a good reason to have a second computer, which will probably be old hardware by the time the applications catch up. Sounds like a good project for an experimenter or hobbyist. There would have to be a mighty good reason for a working stiff to make the switch at this time. What advantages would one see with a 64-bit CPU if the primary applications are audio recording and production? If you are putting a new box together today, the price of 64 bit components is not that much higher than what you would spend for a similarly high end box. Might as well get a Socket 939 MB and a cheap Athlon 64 processor. You can upgrade the processor to a socket 939 compatible dual core Athlon 64 in another 6 months when the prices come down and upgrade to XP 64 or Longhorn in the next year of so and still be pretty cutting edge. I think it would be foolish to purchase 32 bit only hardware at this point in time given the immanent changes upon us. |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
|
#33
|
|||
|
|||
"donaldjcecil" wrote in message news:bRYue.773$ro.360@fed1read02... I am thinking on getting a 64-bit Intel chip. Any prerequisites I should know about? Do I need a special configuration/software/etc..I will mostly be running Reason and Cubase, and I think I will be getting an m-audio fireware sound system. I'd suggest hanging off a bit until mobos, operating systems , drivers, and applications are all working happily (with an advantage) on these CPUs. And they become affordable. geoff |
#34
|
|||
|
|||
Geoff Wood wrote in message ... "donaldjcecil" wrote in message news:bRYue.773$ro.360@fed1read02... I am thinking on getting a 64-bit Intel chip. Any prerequisites I should know about? Do I need a special configuration/software/etc..I will mostly be running Reason and Cubase, and I think I will be getting an m-audio fireware sound system. I'd suggest hanging off a bit until mobos, operating systems , drivers, and applications are all working happily (with an advantage) on these CPUs. And they become affordable. geoff LOL.......you'll be waiting a life time for that.....this is the reason I picked up my G5.I am not a mac freak either as I use PCs as much as Mac. |
#35
|
|||
|
|||
donaldjcecil wrote:
I am thinking on getting a 64-bit Intel chip. Any prerequisites I should know about? Do I need a special configuration/software/etc..I will mostly be running Reason and Cubase, and I think I will be getting an m-audio fireware sound system. Without a matching 64 bit OS *and* applications compiled for that 64 bit OS it's just 'power-user' one-upmanship ****. Graham |
#36
|
|||
|
|||
the apps aren't ported to 64 bit in any meaningful way yet. the only
"advantage" right now is you can get massive amounts of ram, like 8 gig or 20 gig or something crazy. but regular 32 bit computers can run 1 gig or 2 gig of ram just fine, which is plenty. AMD Athlons do run hot, can't comment on the other lines. Spend your money on extra hard drives and a raid-0 setup, much more relevant to your needs. |
#37
|
|||
|
|||
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:06:54 -0700, donaldjcecil
wrote: I am thinking on getting a 64-bit Intel chip. Any prerequisites I should know about? Do I need a special configuration/software/etc..I will mostly be running Reason and Cubase, and I think I will be getting an m-audio fireware sound system. 32-bit, coming 64-bit... its just fine but _the_ bottleneck in audio and video processing are still hard disks. Here, I'd opt for an U320 SCSI RAID0 set with at least 2, if not 4, fastest disks as of today, Seagate Cheetah 15K.4, Maxtor Atlas, Fujitsu{IBM} MAM series... this would give a real world 70-90 MB/s constant across platters throughput of large files and it would be really the time-saver. Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia |
#38
|
|||
|
|||
|
Reply |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Why Windows is Easier than Linux For An End User, Especially for Multimedia work. | Pro Audio |