Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#1
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
spdif aes/ebu format converter
Hi,
I heard different things about the format of spdif and aes/ebu. Beeing the same, almost the same and totaly different. The "physical layer" of course is different, but what about the protocol? I want to convert the spdif out (optical or koax) of my SPL gainstation AD (96kHz/24bit) to feed my 896 MOTU having only AES inputs (XLR). Somebody said, it is possible to do that without format converting, that is only with a RCA-to-XLR cable adaptor? I don't think so... Will the MOTU accept consumer spdif over professional AES ins? What is the cheapest solution the convert SPDIF to AES? I thought of a Behringer Ultramatch. Do you think my audio signal has any impact in terms of quality when going trough a Behringer? The unit claims to have Jitter removement... An other solution for me is to have a really basic USB ASIO interface having a SPDIF in. But I cant find one in a store or ebay... Note it MUST be compatible with 96/24. How would you solve this? Thanks, Lukas |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
spdif aes/ebu format converter
leutholl wrote: I heard different things about the format of spdif and aes/ebu. Beeing the same, almost the same and totaly different. The "physical layer" of course is different, but what about the protocol? You're talking like a networking person. The audio data is the same for both, but there's a difference between the significance of the other bits in the data frame. Some devices and programs ignore those bits, others care about them. The hardware interface (physical layer?) is different but not all that different. I want to convert the spdif out (optical or koax) of my SPL gainstation AD (96kHz/24bit) to feed my 896 MOTU having only AES inputs (XLR). Somebody said, it is possible to do that without format converting, that is only with a RCA-to-XLR cable adaptor? I don't think so.. Most of the time it works. I always suggest trying the simple way first. Will the MOTU accept consumer spdif over professional AES ins? Check the MOTU control panel. There may be a switch in there. More often than not, the switch is for the output data format and it doesn't care about what's coming in. For more information, RTFM. What is the cheapest solution the convert SPDIF to AES? A properly wired cable, if it works. Next up is probably a transformer (usually called a "balun" in this context). M-Audio makes a hardware converter that also accommodates the optical interface on the S/PDIF side. The Behnringer might also work. And it shouldn't affect "quality" as long as you get audio through it. None of these fixers will. |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
spdif aes/ebu format converter
leutholl wrote:
I heard different things about the format of spdif and aes/ebu. Beeing the same, almost the same and totaly different. The "physical layer" of course is different, but what about the protocol? Okay, there isn't any more S-PDIF any more. And there isn't any AES/EBU. There is IEC-458. And there is IEC-458 over 75 ohm coax with consumer subcode (what used to be S-PDIF) and IEC-458 over 110 ohm twinax with professional subcode (what used to be AES/EBU). But there is ALSO professional subcode over 75 ohm coax and consumer subcode over 110 ohm twinax. These weren't valid under the S-PDIF and AES/EBU standards, even though some equipment could use them. They are, however, valid under the decade-old IEC-458. I want to convert the spdif out (optical or koax) of my SPL gainstation AD (96kHz/24bit) to feed my 896 MOTU having only AES inputs (XLR). Somebody said, it is possible to do that without format converting, that is only with a RCA-to-XLR cable adaptor? I don't think so... Will the MOTU accept consumer spdif over professional AES ins? Are you sure the SPL is really giving consumer subcode? Most modern computer interfaces will handle either consumer or professional subcode with no problem. Pretty much anything made in the last decade conforms to the IEC-458 spec. So I wouldn't worry about it, and I'd just use the transformer adaptor. Note it MUST be compatible with 96/24. Presumably the single-wire 96/24 standard and not the double one! That's another whole nightmarish story. But most stuff today should be fine. This isn't 1988, when the standards were very much in flux and Panasonic was sending folks to AES shows to urge them to change the standard to make the SV3700 acceptable under it.... --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
spdif aes/ebu format converter
Am 21 Feb 2006 19:24:54 -0500 schrieb Scott Dorsey:
leutholl wrote: I heard different things about the format of spdif and aes/ebu. Beeing the same, almost the same and totaly different. The "physical layer" of course is different, but what about the protocol? Okay, there isn't any more S-PDIF any more. And there isn't any AES/EBU. There is IEC-458. And there is IEC-458 over 75 ohm coax with consumer subcode (what used to be S-PDIF) and IEC-458 over 110 ohm twinax with professional subcode (what used to be AES/EBU). But there is ALSO professional subcode over 75 ohm coax and consumer subcode over 110 ohm twinax. These weren't valid under the S-PDIF and AES/EBU standards, even though some equipment could use them. They are, however, valid under the decade-old IEC-458. I want to convert the spdif out (optical or koax) of my SPL gainstation AD (96kHz/24bit) to feed my 896 MOTU having only AES inputs (XLR). Somebody said, it is possible to do that without format converting, that is only with a RCA-to-XLR cable adaptor? I don't think so... Will the MOTU accept consumer spdif over professional AES ins? Are you sure the SPL is really giving consumer subcode? Most modern computer interfaces will handle either consumer or professional subcode with no problem. Pretty much anything made in the last decade conforms to the IEC-458 spec. So I wouldn't worry about it, and I'd just use the transformer adaptor. Note it MUST be compatible with 96/24. Presumably the single-wire 96/24 standard and not the double one! That's another whole nightmarish story. But most stuff today should be fine. This isn't 1988, when the standards were very much in flux and Panasonic was sending folks to AES shows to urge them to change the standard to make the SV3700 acceptable under it.... --scott Thanks a lot for this! I will try to get a transformer/balun/impedance match/../.. I'm happy to live in 2006, but I never thought that it will be so easy. ;-) What about the USB interface? Is there something having SPDIF (sorry IEC-458) I/O and USB with ASIO driver on the other side? If not, I will build one, this can't be so difficult. Lukas *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com *** *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com *** |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
spdif aes/ebu format converter
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Presumably the single-wire 96/24 standard and not the double one! That's another whole nightmarish story. But most stuff today should be fine. Didn't Tascam recently ship a DVD-Audio recorder that uses two-wire 24/96? g -- ha |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
spdif aes/ebu format converter
Am Wed, 22 Feb 2006 02:24:06 GMT schrieb hank alrich:
Scott Dorsey wrote: Presumably the single-wire 96/24 standard and not the double one! That's another whole nightmarish story. But most stuff today should be fine. Didn't Tascam recently ship a DVD-Audio recorder that uses two-wire 24/96? g 96/24 is possible over a two-wire cable! At least my gainstation does it! Lukas *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com *** *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com *** |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
spdif aes/ebu format converter
Am Wed, 22 Feb 2006 18:13:34 GMT schrieb Lorin David Schultz:
"leutholl" wrote: I want to convert the spdif out (optical or koax) of my SPL gainstation AD (96kHz/24bit) to feed my 896 MOTU having only AES inputs (XLR). Somebody said, it is possible to do that without format converting, that is only with a RCA-to-XLR cable adaptor? I don't think so... Will the MOTU accept consumer spdif over professional AES ins? Try it. Some devices actually work perfectly this way. I don't know why some devices seem to work and others don't, but given how easy it is to check, I'd give it a try. If it doesn't work you haven't lost anything except a few minutes. The next least expensive solution is a Canare transformer. It converts unbalanced 75 ohm to balanced 110 ohm AES/EBU. So far I haven't come across ANY device that doesn't work with those, but I have only seen them in use with expensive studio gear. I don't know if acceptance of that conversion is similarly device-specific. After that I'd start searching Google for active converters, but since I've never needed one, I can't recommend a specific unit. Thanks so far. Can I use a passive DI box, this is make the signal balanced?!?! What peak-to-peak voltage do I have to expect? I have to go from SPDIF to AES not from AES to SPDIF... Lukas *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com *** *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com *** |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
spdif aes/ebu format converter
leutholl wrote: Can I use a passive DI box, this is make the signal balanced?!?! Geez, will you quit trying to make this complicated? Just get an RCA-XLR cable or adapter. A DI has too great a ratio (either stepping up or stepping down). You really don't need to change the voltage very much if at all. And there may be no need to balance the line. And by all means, try it before you need to use it. When you have a gig or a fidgity customer waiting to record is not the time to hope that youre carefully researched but untested solution works. What peak-to-peak voltage do I have to expect? About 5 volts. You don't need to get an electrical permit from the county or even call an electrician to do the wiring. |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
spdif aes/ebu format converter
leutholl wrote:
Can I use a passive DI box, this is make the signal balanced?!?! What peak-to-peak voltage do I have to expect? No. The digital audio signal is 4 MHz wide. A passive DI with an audio transformer will not work. I have to go from SPDIF to AES not from AES to SPDIF... So buy one of the Canare gadgets with a wideband pulse transformer in it. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
spdif aes/ebu format converter
"leutholl" wrote:
Can I use a passive DI box, this is make the signal balanced?!?! What? I have no idea what you mean... What peak-to-peak voltage do I have to expect? From what? The S/PDIF signal? Look up the spec... roughly half a volt or so. I don't know how it matters though. Either the receiver will lock to it or it won't. If it won't, the transformer will take care of the voltage issue. I have to go from SPDIF to AES not from AES to SPDIF... Lukas, buddy... just PLUG IT IN and see if it works. Quit worrying so much. It costs you nothing to try that, and if it works the rest of the discussion is moot. For whatever it's worth, there's a basic description of the process on the Rane web site at http://www.rane.com/note149.html -- "It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!" - Lorin David Schultz in the control room making even bad news sound good (Remove spamblock to reply) |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
spdif aes/ebu format converter
Am 21 Feb 2006 16:00:26 -0800 schrieb leutholl:
Hi, I heard different things about the format of spdif and aes/ebu. Beeing the same, almost the same and totaly different. The "physical layer" of course is different, but what about the protocol? I want to convert the spdif out (optical or koax) of my SPL gainstation AD (96kHz/24bit) to feed my 896 MOTU having only AES inputs (XLR). Somebody said, it is possible to do that without format converting, that is only with a RCA-to-XLR cable adaptor? I don't think so... Will the MOTU accept consumer spdif over professional AES ins? What is the cheapest solution the convert SPDIF to AES? I thought of a Behringer Ultramatch. Do you think my audio signal has any impact in terms of quality when going trough a Behringer? The unit claims to have Jitter removement... An other solution for me is to have a really basic USB ASIO interface having a SPDIF in. But I cant find one in a store or ebay... Note it MUST be compatible with 96/24. How would you solve this? Thanks, Lukas OK. Final statement to this thread! I bought a Neutrik NADITBNC-M impedance matcher (110 to 75 Ohm) with BNC to XLR. I connected the GainSation AD to my MOTU 896 (AES/EBU in) and it worked! Also with 96/24. Thanks a lot for every hint you gave, it saved my a lot of money! Lukas |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
spdif aes/ebu format converter
leutholl wrote: Am 21 Feb 2006 16:00:26 -0800 schrieb leutholl: I bought a Neutrik NADITBNC-M impedance matcher (110 to 75 Ohm) with BNC to XLR. I connected the GainSation AD to my MOTU 896 (AES/EBU in) and it worked! Also with 96/24. Thanks a lot for every hint you gave, it saved my a lot of money! You might have saved even more money if you had tried a transformerless adapter, but if you're happy, we're happy. |
Reply |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
MOTU 2408 as format converter? | Pro Audio | |||
Coax spdif to AES/EBU - why so expensive? | Pro Audio | |||
Coax spdif to AES/EBU - why so expensive? | Pro Audio |