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#1
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'location' recording
What medium is used now for location recording? MiniDisk? Nagra
(analog tape)? I liked the Tascam DAP-1 with its phantom powered inputs, very compact, but with DAT a non-option nowadays... |
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#2
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#3
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gerrymcc wrote ...
What medium is used now for location recording? MiniDisk? Nagra (analog tape)? I liked the Tascam DAP-1 with its phantom powered inputs, very compact, but with DAT a non- option nowadays... IMHO, we are currently in the gap between the end of DAT and the availability of decent flash RAM recorders. Some of the recent flash recorders are beginning to approach audiophile or decent commercial quality. The mic preamps seem to be the area where manufacturers haven't perceived the market for something of decent quality. There is now reasonably decent capacity and uncompressed encoding available in the latest, high-capacity MiniDisc. However Sony, et.al. have fatally crippled it with their draconian file protection (DRM) schemes. Analog tape seems to be on life-support as the source of tape seems so insecure. At one point less than a year ago there were NO manufacturers of analog tape left. Dunno how long the current 2 (or 3?) vendors can stay in profitable business? If we have to wait too much longer, I may get motivated enough to cobble up something the size of a paperback book that takes 8 AA cells, a notebook PC hard drive, a couple of female XLR connectors, and a circuit board, LCD display and a few buttons to tie it all together. Something along the same idea as the PJRC MP3 player kit... http://www.pjrc.com/ |
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#4
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In article , wrote:
What medium is used now for location recording? MiniDisk? Nagra (analog tape)? I liked the Tascam DAP-1 with its phantom powered inputs, very compact, but with DAT a non-option nowadays... I'm running 1/4" tape, 1/2" tape, DAT, and DTRS. Plenty of other folks are going the hard disk route with gadgets like the DEVA or the Sound Devices recorders. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#5
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In article , ()
wrote: What medium is used now for location recording? MiniDisk? Nagra (analog tape)? I liked the Tascam DAP-1 with its phantom powered inputs, very compact, but with DAT a non-option nowadays... Lots to choose from, depending on your budget: From http://www.edirol.com/products/info/r1.html and its competitors from Marantz, M-Audio etc to http://www.edirol.com/products/info/r4.html and the like. Then if you have deep enough pockets it's onward and upward to http://www.zaxcom.com/index.shtml and http://www.aaton.com/products/sound/cantar/index.php Those are just a few I had bookmarked, there are loads more. |
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#6
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Richard Crowley wrote:
Analog tape seems to be on life-support as the source of tape seems so insecure. At one point less than a year ago there were NO manufacturers of analog tape left. Dunno how long the current 2 (or 3?) vendors can stay in profitable business? Currently it's one vendor actually shipping product (plus JAI in Bombay, which has no US distribution and no quality control). Soon it will be four vendors shipping product. Things will be getting better, at least for a while. I think that analogue tape will be profitable for a good long while yet, but only for small boutique manufacturers that will be charging a lot and doing small production runs. I don't see that as a bad thing, though. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#7
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On 9/8/05 5:25 AM, in article ,
" wrote: What medium is used now for location recording? MiniDisk? Nagra (analog tape)? I liked the Tascam DAP-1 with its phantom powered inputs, very compact, but with DAT a non-option nowadays... Rec.arts.movies.production.sound |
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#8
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On 9/8/05 1:43 PM, in article , "Richard
Crowley" wrote: gerrymcc wrote ... What medium is used now for location recording? MiniDisk? Nagra (analog tape)? I liked the Tascam DAP-1 with its phantom powered inputs, very compact, but with DAT a non- option nowadays... IMHO, we are currently in the gap between the end of DAT and the availability of decent flash RAM recorders. Some of the recent flash recorders are beginning to approach audiophile or decent commercial quality. The mic preamps seem to be the area where manufacturers haven't perceived the market for something of decent quality. Wrong... Rec.arts.movies.production.sound |
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#9
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"SSJVCmag" wrote ...
"Richard Crowley" wrote: gerrymcc wrote ... What medium is used now for location recording? MiniDisk? Nagra (analog tape)? I liked the Tascam DAP-1 with its phantom powered inputs, very compact, but with DAT a non- option nowadays... IMHO, we are currently in the gap between the end of DAT and the availability of decent flash RAM recorders. Some of the recent flash recorders are beginning to approach audiophile or decent commercial quality. The mic preamps seem to be the area where manufacturers haven't perceived the market for something of decent quality. Wrong... Rec.arts.movies.production.sound Thank you for your perceptive and comprehensive addition to the discussion. Assuming that if the OP were asking about high-end, double- system production equipment, he would have asked over on r.a.m.p.s in the first place. Perhaps you missed the extensive discussion of this particular product market right here only a few weeks ago? We have been discussing it off-and-on for most of the year. |
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#11
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#12
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Albert wrote:
Laptop computer. Some may jump on this, saying 'what about if it crashes in the middle of a concert?' Yeah, that'd be a bummer. A DAT backup can work, though maybe I'm lazy - I have hundreds of hours of remote work on my laptop without a backup recorder, and I've never lost a second of audio. There are none who value backups less than those who have never lost data, just as there are none who value them more than those who have just lost data! -- ================================================== ====================== Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make | two, one and one make one." mrkesti at comcast dot net | - The Who, Bargain |
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#13
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Michael R. Kesti wrote:
Albert wrote: Laptop computer. Some may jump on this, saying 'what about if it crashes in the middle of a concert?' Yeah, that'd be a bummer. A DAT backup can work, though maybe I'm lazy - I have hundreds of hours of remote work on my laptop without a backup recorder, and I've never lost a second of audio. There are none who value backups less than those who have never lost data, just as there are none who value them more than those who have just lost data! ..sig material, Michael. Excellent! Thanks. -- ha |
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#14
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Michael R. Kesti wrote:
Albert wrote: Laptop computer. Some may jump on this, saying 'what about if it crashes in the middle of a concert?' Yeah, that'd be a bummer. A DAT backup can work, though maybe I'm lazy - I have hundreds of hours of remote work on my laptop without a backup recorder, and I've never lost a second of audio. There are none who value backups less than those who have never lost data, just as there are none who value them more than those who have just lost data! I will say that I have used just about every recording format available in the past 30 years, from lacquer discs to various analogue formats, DASH, DTRS, 3M and Mitsubishi digital, down to CD-R, DVD-R, and a couple hard disk systems, and so far there is NOT ONE of these formats where I have not lost data. Admittedly in most cases it was my own fault, but it still happened. All recording formats are unreliable, and doubly so when human beings operate the machinery. --scott (who once recorded on a cart with the dbx unit set for playback and STILL feels bad about it.) -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#15
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Richard Crowley wrote: There is now reasonably decent capacity and uncompressed encoding available in the latest, high-capacity MiniDisc. However Sony, et.al. have fatally crippled it with their draconian file protection (DRM) schemes. Actually, the last vestige of that with respect to what you record yourself has been removed. For analog recording it is no longer encumbered. OTOH, I've yet to see a good test done of the analog front end of a Hi-MD and I don't think you can record from digital in on devices that have it. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
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#16
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Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , wrote: What medium is used now for location recording? MiniDisk? Nagra (analog tape)? I liked the Tascam DAP-1 with its phantom powered inputs, very compact, but with DAT a non-option nowadays... I'm running 1/4" tape, 1/2" tape, DAT, and DTRS. Plenty of other folks are going the hard disk route with gadgets like the DEVA or the Sound Devices recorders. I was going to ask about the portable 1/2" recorder, but I've just realised you're probably using some kind of mobile studio. I got the impression that the poster was asking more for field recording devices like the Nagra or UHER recorders (or DAT or Minidisk, or CF). --scott -- JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- Fun things to do with the Ultima games http://www.it-he.org Developing a U6/U7 clone http://ire.it-he.org d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KA u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB---- uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976) |
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#17
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spud wrote:
On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 09:25:39 GMT, wrote: Whatever current medium develops from here on out is going to be crippled or complicated by copy protection to the point you can't use it, it seems. That's the main reason why I dived into analogue head-first (although it seems I arrived a bit too late). -- JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- Fun things to do with the Ultima games http://www.it-he.org Developing a U6/U7 clone http://ire.it-he.org d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KA u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB---- uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976) |
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#18
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spud wrote: Whatever current medium develops from here on out is going to be crippled or complicated by copy protection to the point you can't use it, it seems. Really? Are recordings made on flash card recorders such as the Marantz or Fostex copy-protected? I thought all you had to do was stick them in a reader connected to a computer and they showed up as plain ordinary WAV files. Many of these devices have a USB port that makes it look, to the computer, like an external disk drive. I liked to old scsm system whereby you paid double to get rid of it so it kept it out of the hands of copiers but pros had the flexibilities they needed to work. I didn't like the concept, and as the industry discovered, it didn't work anyway. Only digital diehards or ignorants cared that it was difficult to make a digital copy. If you wanted a copy, you could always make an analog copy. The danger of being able to make a "perfect clone" was greatly exaggerated. But SCMS was before the Internet. The target today is not to prevent copying of your own recordings, but rather to prevent unauthorized distribution of commercial recordings. I still use a DAP-1 with acceptable results, it just takes twice as long to real-time into a pc. Most DAW programs ignore (or can be set to ignore) the copy protection status bits, so if you're willing to make a real-time copy to a computer, it's usually no problem to make a "clean" copy of an SCMS-protected recording. But the deterrent today is that people are too impatient to make a real-time copy. Geez, they might even LISTEN to it while they're running a copy - but, no, the need for instantaneous copying and sharing is the driving force of a major portion of the population of recording hobbyists (who are the largest purchasers of recorders, not the pros). |
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#19
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JP Morris wrote:
I was going to ask about the portable 1/2" recorder, but I've just realised you're probably using some kind of mobile studio. It's an ATR-104 in a shipping case. Two people can lift it and carry it into the hall, which makes it portable. I have a 440-8 1" recorder in three shipping cases, each of which can be lifted by two people. That's pushing the borders of portable, although I still take it out to music festivals. I got the impression that the poster was asking more for field recording devices like the Nagra or UHER recorders (or DAT or Minidisk, or CF). The Nagra IV gets taken out regularly. The Nagra III even gets used now and then, surprisingly enough. The Uher 4000 sits on the shelf collecting dust. The HHB DAT machine is out all the time. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#20
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"Bob Cain" wrote ...
Richard Crowley wrote: There is now reasonably decent capacity and uncompressed encoding available in the latest, high-capacity MiniDisc. However Sony, et.al. have fatally crippled it with their draconian file protection (DRM) schemes. Actually, the last vestige of that with respect to what you record yourself has been removed. For analog recording it is no longer encumbered. http://www.minidisc.org/uploader_table.html Sony equipment is not even listed anymore. |
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#21
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#22
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It depends if you need timecode. Any portable recorder that has good
timecode with will cost at least a few kilobucks. Half of the big budget movies over the last several years have been recorded with our portable hard disk recorder the Deva 2 or Deva 5 (about 10 to 15 kbucks). The audio for TV and Film now tends to be recorded onto a laptop drive and then copied to a DVD-RAM disk during the day. The DVD-RAM disk is sent to the post house and the audio on the hard drive stays with the sound mixer for safety and for playback on set. (why DVD-RAM and not DVD-R? DVD-RAM drives re-write bad sectors on the fly and as a result are10 times more reliable than any other optical media). We don't see any customers using Flash because they generate 2 to 4Gigs of data every day and they cant be sure they will get their cards back from post. We have some customers who record music too, but most musical recordings can be done while sitting down in a climate controlled location. The Deva recorder is designed for professionals who may have to record while on the back of a motorcycle in the desert or in Antarctica. In my experience laptop hard drives and DVD-RAM media are crazy reliable when used in this application (not much head seeking going on when recording audio). Much more so than 3.5 inch hard drives or DAT tape. -howy |
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#23
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Richard Crowley wrote: "Bob Cain" wrote ... Richard Crowley wrote: There is now reasonably decent capacity and uncompressed encoding available in the latest, high-capacity MiniDisc. However Sony, et.al. have fatally crippled it with their draconian file protection (DRM) schemes. Actually, the last vestige of that with respect to what you record yourself has been removed. For analog recording it is no longer encumbered. http://www.minidisc.org/uploader_table.html Sony equipment is not even listed anymore. Any more? That site just hasn't been updated. Sonic Stage 3.2, the software that manages the Hi-MD no longer has restrictions on uploading analog recordings nor will it erase them from the media as it once did after two uploads. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
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#24
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As a replacement for the Tascam you might consider the Fostex FR2
which I reviewed for Audio Media (read it here www.themagicofradio.com). You can also find reviews of the PD6 DVD RAM recorder there and the Aaton Cantar (if you have Bill Gates type money). Other things for more money - Nagra BB+ (very easy to use, compact flash, but doesn't do high sample rates), the Nagra V - very high quality hard disk based and the Sonosax MINIR 82 6K$ size of a packet of cigarettes and who knows if it exists? For less money Marantz have a compact flash recorder and new on the market so do M-Audio. In the UK the Fostex FR2 is half the price of the Sound Devices but in the US I expect the gap is smaller and SD do make truly great products. |
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#25
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"Bob Cain" wrote...
Sonic Stage 3.2, the software that manages the Hi-MD no longer has restrictions on uploading analog recordings nor will it erase them from the media as it once did after two uploads. You should send the minidisc.org people an email. It does make them appear a bit more competitive. |
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#26
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wrote:
What medium is used now for location recording? MiniDisk? Nagra (analog tape)? I liked the Tascam DAP-1 with its phantom powered inputs, very compact, but with DAT a non-option nowadays... DAT is pretty much dead. Our PDAudio system uses flash memory (CF and SD cards), USB hard drives and both wired and wireless network storage. -- Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912 |
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