In article ,
Erwin Timmerman wrote:
I still have to wonder about the "threshold of human hearing" they speak
about, because with playback systems that have a volume knob, it just doesn't
apply. If the CD is so damn soft that you can't hear a thing, turn up the
volume. Given that fact, what should I, if I were defining the model, pick as
the absolute threshold level?? It would just be a wild guess. Do they pick the
threshold level relative to the loudest peak? If that were the case,
normalizing a wave wouldn't do anything for getting better encoding. The
threshold level would be increased just as much as the quiet waveforms get
louder. Do they pick it relative to the RMS level of a song? If so,
"normalizing" it your way would actually only INCREASE the level under which
data was dropped, so it would actually hurt the encoding result. Do they pick
it relative to the loudness of the moment? That way the result wouldn't change
because with every low volume part the threshold would decrease as well. All
the more reason just to duck into the source code and find out for real. Or
maybe a message on
http://board.mp3-tech.org/w-agora.ph...ora_mp3techorg would
help.

FWIW, ATH is a lookup table based on Fletcher-Munson loudness
thresholds and relative to digital full scale, not to anything else.

So it's basically a hard, multiband noise gate, at a higher threshold
for very low and very high frequencies.

My take on this is pretty much that if ATH had anything to do with
it, changing the ATH level would be just as good. I hacked a version of
a LAME shared library to be able to do that- I think the functionality
eventually made it into the original encoder. I guess notlame is more of
a just-run-it project and doesn't give users that level of control, but
if it does, problem over.

Unless, of course, Myke (hey, is this Cyco Myko of Suicidal
Tendencies?) simply doesn't like over-high crest factors, which is
totally understandable. He doesn't like overly LOW crest factors either,
and has said so. I'd say the guy is just sensitive to crest factor.
Given what I already know, if I was doing mastering for him I could give
him stuff he loved every time, just by zeroing in on the crest factor he
likes best.

That's useful to know, that people do have preference about this even
if they don't know what it is they're hearing. I could have told you
that, but Myke becomes a real-world example backing me up


Chris Johnson

Chris Johnson wrote:

FWIW, ATH is a lookup table based on Fletcher-Munson loudness
thresholds and relative to digital full scale, not to anything else.

OK, it has a name. That's good. I was not aware of that. Gives me
something with which to Google. Thanks.

So it's basically a hard, multiband noise gate, at a higher threshold
for very low and very high frequencies.

This sounds very good to me on a purely emotional level because while
the goal is to either prove or disprove my hypothesis, my *hope* is that
it is proven true. But I cannot allow my hopes to cloud my judgement.

Once the hypothesis is confirmed or denied and/or modified as necessary
to accommodate variables involving VBR and things like that, I can get
back to sending my levels to the moon. Just kidding. Actually I'd like
to spend more time examining just how much limiting, etc. I am causing
to occur in my pop/rock WAVs. Even though I'd prefer not to discuss it
within the context of this thread, it *is* a matter of great interest
and concern to me. I believe some either are or have tried to equate my
headstrong desire to stay on-topic with wanton disregard for all other
topics. Such is not the case. To everthing there is a season.

Unless, of course, Myke (hey, is this Cyco Myko of Suicidal
Tendencies?)

Yeah, I'm the one who penned the line "tire tracks all across her head"
some years back!

Myke

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