Hi,

I just bought an se-40 used.
The sound of the amp is slow and fuzzy. I believe this is due to in
part the (old) sovtek 5881 tubes.

I am wondering if changing them to 6l6eh, sylvania 6l6gc, modern kt66
or el34 is the way to go.

I do not want a warm and fuzzy sound, I want a natural-sounding amp
with excellent imaging.

Is it worth trying to mod this amp, or should I just sell it and go
for triodes instead.

It would be nice to have a higher power amp like this ANYWAY, but only
if I can make the amp more involving as far as soundstage and
transients go.

Can any owner who has modded the amp help?

Max

The 5881's probably need to go. The least expensive alternative is the
6L6EH. EL34's don't seem to work in every one of these amps. I've
heard varying results. If you decide on EL34's make sure pin 1 and 8
on the circuit board are connected together. The driver tubes are
pretty poor in these amps as well. Find quality replacements. Locate
the coupling caps as well and replace them with Auricaps or better.
I've done several of these and the input tubes and coupling caps are
most critical.

On 2 Jun 2004 00:08:39 GMT, (maxdm) wrote:

Hi,

I just bought an se-40 used.
The sound of the amp is slow and fuzzy. I believe this is due to in
part the (old) sovtek 5881 tubes.

I am wondering if changing them to 6l6eh, sylvania 6l6gc, modern kt66
or el34 is the way to go.

I do not want a warm and fuzzy sound, I want a natural-sounding amp
with excellent imaging.

Is it worth trying to mod this amp, or should I just sell it and go
for triodes instead.

It would be nice to have a higher power amp like this ANYWAY, but only
if I can make the amp more involving as far as soundstage and
transients go.

Can any owner who has modded the amp help?

Max

Dan Santoni
DTS Audio
Hamilton, ON
Canada

On 2 Jun 2004 00:08:39 GMT, (maxdm) wrote:

I just bought an se-40 used.
The sound of the amp is slow and fuzzy. I believe this is due to in
part the (old) sovtek 5881 tubes.

I am wondering if changing them to 6l6eh, sylvania 6l6gc, modern kt66
or el34 is the way to go.

I do not want a warm and fuzzy sound, I want a natural-sounding amp
with excellent imaging.

Get any good 60-watt solid-state amp - there are plenty out there to
choose from.

Is it worth trying to mod this amp, or should I just sell it and go
for triodes instead.

Most triode amps will only make the warm fuzziness, warmer and more
fuzzy - sell it and go for solid-state. Remember, the very best tube
amps such as the ARC VT-150 and C-J Premier Eight, sound just like a
good SS amp anyway!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Max,
There are nicer currently produced tube amplifiers that will be a a
good match for your speakers. Or you could choose to go with a nice
solid state amp as Stewart suggests. I'd sell the amp if you don't
like it and move on. Putting more money into anything with limited
capabilities like that is not the best move when you can get a more
satisfactory product with a warranty.
-Bill
www.uptownaudio.com
Roanoke VA
(540) 343-1250

"maxdm" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I just bought an se-40 used.
The sound of the amp is slow and fuzzy. I believe this is due to in
part the (old) sovtek 5881 tubes.

I am wondering if changing them to 6l6eh, sylvania 6l6gc, modern
kt66
or el34 is the way to go.

I do not want a warm and fuzzy sound, I want a natural-sounding amp
with excellent imaging.

Is it worth trying to mod this amp, or should I just sell it and go
for triodes instead.

It would be nice to have a higher power amp like this ANYWAY, but
only
if I can make the amp more involving as far as soundstage and
transients go.

Can any owner who has modded the amp help?

Max

Uptown Audio wrote in message news:IZzvc.44289$Ly.34804@attbi_s01...
Max,
There are nicer currently produced tube amplifiers that will be a a
good match for your speakers. Or you could choose to go with a nice
solid state amp as Stewart suggests. I'd sell the amp if you don't
like it and move on. Putting more money into anything with limited
capabilities like that is not the best move when you can get a more
satisfactory product with a warranty.

Hi,

I am aware of the sonic differences between tube and solid state
because of my experience with recording equipment.
A good tube amp should not sound like solid state, because that would
imply a large dose of negative feedback, high current circuits and
peakyness in the top end and a large component count.
These things are all needed to get the spectral balance and dynamics
which people expect from a modern hi-fi amp.


Just listen to a condenser microphone with a fet internal amp and then
the same mic with a tube amp (not miniature ecc83 6072 and the like)
and you will understand how much depth is lost with just one stage of
solid state components.

fuzzyness is due mostly to using ****ty commercial tubes (ecc83's 5881
sovteks etc.) which were designed for P.A., radio set -- commercial
amps, and instrument amps.

Having said this, a badly designed amp is a badly designed amp.

I have heard a small single-ended amplifier that I modded with just
two stages of amplification and the end result is the effect of going
back in time to the moment the recording was made.

To me this is much more important and fun to listen to that super-fast
high-current solid state amps that sound their best when played loud!

this is why I was curious about the se-40 and bought one.

My conclusion is that all the hype about this amp has it's foundation
in the fact that the circuit is single ended, and this is a very
musically accurate type of design used in the absolute best musical
reproduction amplifiers.

Esentially a Class A output.

The fact is that the se-40 is actually a lower Watt amp than
described, with inferior internal components and it is not a zero
feedback amp.
Had the amp really been zero feedback, there would have been NO WAY to
use the 5881's because with no feedback you'll hear all the crud
that these P.A. tubes put out (10% distortion?). They were built for
high power push-pull (in itself a distortion cancelling topology)
circuits w/ neg. feedback

there is a feedback winding for the cathode of the 5881s and the 2k7
resistor in the driver tube acts as local feedback for the driver
stage.

My question remains: are the 6l6EH tubes noticeably better that the
sovteks, or should I spend more and get 6l6gc sylvania tubes or??

Anyone out there that actually OWNS and has changed the output tubes
of this amp?

You are free to spend whatever you like on your new toy. Everyone has
their own tastes, but my original recommendation also remains -
replace the amp. You don't have to get a solid state amp or even an
amp that sounds like one, just a good amp. My advice was only to save
you the time and money spent going down a long road to find the dead
end which you knew was there before you started. Why trouble yourself
with walking back? Anyway, it sounds like you are enjoying the project
which is the most important aspect. You might find that you have
completely rebuilt the amp by the time you are satisfied. I know I
would!
-Bill
www.uptownaudio.com
Roanoke VA
(540) 343-1250

"maxdm" wrote in message
...
Uptown Audio wrote in message
news:IZzvc.44289$Ly.34804@attbi_s01...
Max,
There are nicer currently produced tube amplifiers that will be a
a
good match for your speakers. Or you could choose to go with a
nice
solid state amp as Stewart suggests. I'd sell the amp if you don't
like it and move on. Putting more money into anything with limited
capabilities like that is not the best move when you can get a
more
satisfactory product with a warranty.

Hi,

I am aware of the sonic differences between tube and solid state
because of my experience with recording equipment.
A good tube amp should not sound like solid state, because that
would
imply a large dose of negative feedback, high current circuits and
peakyness in the top end and a large component count.
These things are all needed to get the spectral balance and dynamics
which people expect from a modern hi-fi amp.


Just listen to a condenser microphone with a fet internal amp and
then
the same mic with a tube amp (not miniature ecc83 6072 and the like)
and you will understand how much depth is lost with just one stage
of
solid state components.

fuzzyness is due mostly to using ****ty commercial tubes (ecc83's
5881
sovteks etc.) which were designed for P.A., radio set -- commercial
amps, and instrument amps.

Having said this, a badly designed amp is a badly designed amp.

I have heard a small single-ended amplifier that I modded with just
two stages of amplification and the end result is the effect of
going
back in time to the moment the recording was made.

To me this is much more important and fun to listen to that
super-fast
high-current solid state amps that sound their best when played
loud!

this is why I was curious about the se-40 and bought one.

My conclusion is that all the hype about this amp has it's
foundation
in the fact that the circuit is single ended, and this is a very
musically accurate type of design used in the absolute best musical
reproduction amplifiers.

Esentially a Class A output.

The fact is that the se-40 is actually a lower Watt amp than
described, with inferior internal components and it is not a zero
feedback amp.
Had the amp really been zero feedback, there would have been NO WAY
to
use the 5881's because with no feedback you'll hear all the crud
that these P.A. tubes put out (10% distortion?). They were built
for
high power push-pull (in itself a distortion cancelling topology)
circuits w/ neg. feedback

there is a feedback winding for the cathode of the 5881s and the 2k7
resistor in the driver tube acts as local feedback for the driver
stage.

My question remains: are the 6l6EH tubes noticeably better that the
sovteks, or should I spend more and get 6l6gc sylvania tubes or??

Anyone out there that actually OWNS and has changed the output tubes
of this amp?