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#1
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
I am considering the HSU VTF 2, HSU STF 2 and the Velodyne CHT 10 or 12. All
are in the range of $400 to $500. My room is 12" by 18" with my kitchen behind it. I will use the sub 75% for music and 25% for Home theater. My speakers are bookshelf Paradigm reference studio 20's. I am looking for a tight punchy bass as opposed to a loud or booming type of bass. Am I better off with Velodyne or HSU. Thanks |
#2
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
If you can stretch an extra couple of hundred dollars, I'd suggest you
consider picking up a used Paradigm Servo-15. I've seen them around for between $700 and $800. One of the very best subs available, imho, and it works magic with the Studio 20s. Bruce "Randy and Michelle" wrote in message news:esTpc.12685$qA.1542604@attbi_s51... I am considering the HSU VTF 2, HSU STF 2 and the Velodyne CHT 10 or 12. All are in the range of $400 to $500. My room is 12" by 18" with my kitchen behind it. I will use the sub 75% for music and 25% for Home theater. My speakers are bookshelf Paradigm reference studio 20's. I am looking for a tight punchy bass as opposed to a loud or booming type of bass. Am I better off with Velodyne or HSU. Thanks |
#3
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
I would recommend the HSU. Not because it sounds "better" than the
Velodyne but because I had two velodynes that failed. The amplifier failed and in one case damaged the driver. Because they were over three years old (out of warranty) Velodyne refused to repair one of them until i became "nasty". Then they repaired it for $100 but they packaged it poorly and I got it back damaged. It worked (sort of) but the on/off switch was broken and the clips that held the front panel on were broken off. When the second unit failed, I just disconnected the amplifier and I use the driver with a separate amplifier. In general, their customer service stinks! -MIKE |
#4
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
Randy and Michelle wrote:
I am considering the HSU VTF 2, HSU STF 2 and the Velodyne CHT 10 or 12. All are in the range of $400 to $500. My room is 12" by 18" with my kitchen behind it. I will use the sub 75% for music and 25% for Home theater. My speakers are bookshelf Paradigm reference studio 20's. I am looking for a tight punchy bass as opposed to a loud or booming type of bass. Am I better off with Velodyne or HSU. Thanks I have reviewed a number of Hsu and Velodyne subs (plus other brands, of course) and on a dollar per dollar basis the Hsu versions were better. Indeed, I once did an AB comparison between a $500 VTF-2 (which I still keep on hand for reference purposes) and a Velodyne servo model, the $1300 FSR-12 (which I like very much, indeed, and still have in my living-room system), and down to 25 Hz they were indistinguishable. Below that frequency, the Velodyne was superior. With nearly all music and home-theater source material they were interchangeable. With test tones the Velodyne could play a bit louder at 20 Hz and the Hsu was able to go a bit louder (still cleanly) at 31.5 Hz. I have also compared various other Hsu models (as well as big tube-shaped models from SVS and the marvelous Paradigm Servo 15) to Velodyne HGS-12, HGS-15, and F1800RII models, and for the most part all were on performance par down to the frequencies where one might have slightly deeper extension. That is not so say that the servo units were not better with stuff like pure, very low-frequency test tones, but with music they were all working very similarly, provided they were able to reach down to similar frequencies equally well with test-tone inputs. I have no idea how the newer CHT Velodynes perform, but in an AB test I did some time back a Hsu VTF-2 massacred a non-servo Velodyne CT-12 - both in terms of max output and cleanness, particularly below 45 Hz. The Hsu was even able to keep up with a big non-servo CT-15 in terms of practical, clean performance, although the far larger Velodyne was able to go louder. This is not the first sub that little VTF-2 has massacred in a comparison test I did, by the way. It is a remarkable device. So while the newer Velodynes may be terrific (nobody admires Velodyne more than I do, since I own two of their servo models, anyway and have given those and other servo models strong thumbs-up reviews), the VTF-2 is a sure-thing winner purchase. The STF-2 appears to be a simplified version of that unit, although I am not absolutely sure about that. I recently reviewed the smaller STF-1 and was wowed by its ability. Indeed, that $300 Hsu pulverized a competing $500 model from a highly regarded company's otherwise very fine performing sub/sat package. The latter results will show up in one of my The Sensible Sound reviews in a month or so, and I will at least say that that company's sub was not chopped liver. It was just inferior to the Hsu. Incidentally, the only company that I for sure know can match Hsu on a bang-for-buck basis is SVS. Howard Ferstler |
#5
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
MIKE wrote:
I would recommend the HSU. Not because it sounds "better" than the Velodyne but because I had two velodynes that failed. The amplifier failed and in one case damaged the driver. Because they were over three years old (out of warranty) Velodyne refused to repair one of them until i became "nasty"... ====================================== Velodyne purchasers should note that their warranty "clock" starts ticking on the day the subwoofer is built, so when you buy it, part of the warranty is already history. The build date is on the serial number label. Don't think you can "fake" it; they have a file with serial numbers and corresponding build dates. -GP |
#6
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
MIKE wrote:
I would recommend the HSU. Not because it sounds "better" than the Velodyne but because I had two velodynes that failed. The amplifier failed and in one case damaged the driver. Because they were over three years old (out of warranty) Velodyne refused to repair one of them until i became "nasty". Then they repaired it for $100 but they packaged it poorly and I got it back damaged. It worked (sort of) but the on/off switch was broken and the clips that held the front panel on were broken off. When the second unit failed, I just disconnected the amplifier and I use the driver with a separate amplifier. In general, their customer service stinks! FWIW, I've had a Velodyne F100 since around 1996, and it's worked like a champ the whole time. -- -S. "They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason." -- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director |
#7
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
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#8
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
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#9
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
Gene Poon wrote:
Velodyne purchasers should note that their warranty "clock" starts ticking on the day the subwoofer is built, so when you buy it, part of the warranty is already history. The build date is on the serial number label. Don't think you can "fake" it; they have a file with serial numbers and corresponding build dates. My hair kind of stood up when I read your comments, and I could actually see exclamation marks rising out of my ears towards the ceiling. I am not sure that typical state laws would let this kind of warranty ploy fly. It is almost universal for warranties to start ticking when the sales ticket is printed and not when the product is built. Nobody could get away with what you claim. Howard Ferstler |
#10
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
"Howard Ferstler" wrote in message
news:98Lqc.6446$zw.4039@attbi_s01... Gene Poon wrote: Velodyne purchasers should note that their warranty "clock" starts ticking on the day the subwoofer is built, so when you buy it, part of the warranty is already history. The build date is on the serial number label. Don't think you can "fake" it; they have a file with serial numbers and corresponding build dates. My hair kind of stood up when I read your comments, and I could actually see exclamation marks rising out of my ears towards the ceiling. I am not sure that typical state laws would let this kind of warranty ploy fly. It is almost universal for warranties to start ticking when the sales ticket is printed and not when the product is built. Nobody could get away with what you claim. Howard Ferstler I agree. It's hard to believe the build date is the sole starting point for warranty coverage. It is more likely the build date is a reference point for warranty issues that may arise from a faulty run of products or other known problems with products built within an identifiable range of dates. Randy |
#11
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
Bruce Abrams wrote:
If you can stretch an extra couple of hundred dollars, I'd suggest you consider picking up a used Paradigm Servo-15. I've seen them around for between $700 and $800. One of the very best subs available, imho, and it works magic with the Studio 20s. I reviewed this sub in issue 71 of The Sensible Sound. In practical terms it is equal in performance to the Velodyne F1800RII and Hsu TN1220 models that I reviewed in issue 67. I actually own the two latter units, but I would not at all be unsatisfied with the Paradigm as a replacement for either. Top-tier subs tend to sound a lot alike. My only problem with the Servo 15 is that its front-to-back depth is considerable (over two feet) and so it would protrude into one's listening room more than either the big Velodyne or the big Hsu. That might bother some people. Howard Ferstler |
#12
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
In article jWNqc.1289$Vv.107667@attbi_s51,
Randy wrote: Velodyne purchasers should note that their warranty "clock" starts ticking on the day the subwoofer is built, so when you buy it, part of the warranty is already history. The build date is on the serial number label. Don't think you can "fake" it; they have a file with serial numbers and corresponding build dates. My hair kind of stood up when I read your comments, and I could actually see exclamation marks rising out of my ears towards the ceiling. I am not sure that typical state laws would let this kind of warranty ploy fly. It is almost universal for warranties to start ticking when the sales ticket is printed and not when the product is built. Nobody could get away with what you claim. I agree. It's hard to believe the build date is the sole starting point for warranty coverage. Agreed. It is more likely the build date is a reference point for warranty issues that may arise from a faulty run of products or other known problems with products built within an identifiable range of dates. Velodyne's own customer-support site states the following: "Velodyne Acoustics, Inc. warrants all home theater and full-range speaker products for a period of five years and all powered subwoofers products and accessories for a period of two years. All Velodyne products have a warranty from the date of purchase against defects in materials and workmanship when purchased through any authorized Velodyne dealer." The key here might be the phrase "authorized Velodyne dealer". Most manufacturer-to-consumer warranty arrangements kick in at the point of "first retail sale" - the point at which the manufacturer, or one of their authorized retailers or distributers, turns control of the product over to the consumer. The warranty may or may not be transferrable to subsequent owners (a "full" warranty is, a "limited" warranty may not be). The situation is often different if you (the consumer) buy a product from someone who is _not_ an authorized dealer - e.g. a grey-market seller or importer, or second-hand. In cases like this, the manufacturer might do any of several things: - Declare that the grey market dealer's _purchase_ of the product was the "original retail sale", that you are the second owner, and that the manufacturer's warranty (being non-transferrable to a second owner) is completely void. Velodyne is not doing this, as far as I can see. - Decide to treat the non-authorized dealer as if they're an authorized dealer, as long as the product had not actually been opened or used by the non-authorized dealer, and declare the warranty to start from the date of your purchase. Velodyne isn't doing this, either. - Take a middle ground - state that your warranty is valid, but that it'll be dated from an earlier point in time (either the non- authorized dealer's purchase date if that's known, or from the manufacturing date). This is apparently what Velodyne is doing. So - if you buy a Velodyne product from an authorized dealer, the warranty applies from your date of purchase. If you buy one from a grey-market or other non-authorized dealer, it sounds as if they've chosen to honor the warranty starting from the build date. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
#13
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
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#14
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Velodyne warranty, was HSU or Velodyne Sub?
Howard Ferstler wrote:
Gene Poon wrote: Velodyne purchasers should note that their warranty "clock" starts ticking on the day the subwoofer is built, so when you buy it, part of the warranty is already history. The build date is on the serial number label. Don't think you can "fake" it; they have a file with serial numbers and corresponding build dates. My hair kind of stood up when I read your comments, and I could actually see exclamation marks rising out of my ears towards the ceiling. I am not sure that typical state laws would let this kind of warranty ploy fly. It is almost universal for warranties to start ticking when the sales ticket is printed and not when the product is built. Nobody could get away with what you claim. This does have me wondering, as just over a month ago, while contacting the factory for an authorized Velodyne dealer, a Velodyne employee specifically stated that a subwoofer was past its warranty period based on the build date, which they looked up by serial number, and which matched what showed on the serial number label. They did, with very little prodding, accede to make the necessary repair to the failed amplifier module at no charge. Warranty information on Velodyne's web site says: All Velodyne powered subwoofers come with a two-year warranty against defects in materials and workmanship. However, there are limitations to the warranty, so please read your warranty card carefully. and on their warranty registration page, they say: Velodyne Acoustics, Inc. warrants all home theater and full-range speaker products for a period of five years and all powered subwoofers products and accessories for a period of two years. All Velodyne products have a warranty from the date of purchase against defects in materials and workmanship when purchased through any authorized Velodyne dealer. This specifically states "date of purchase" and I will have to contact the factory for clarification; not to mention why that conversation went the way it did. |
#15
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Velodyne warranty, was HSU or Velodyne Sub?
Back about ten years ago when I had my "fight" with Velodyne, I returned
the first failed unit for repair. When I got it back, lo and behold, there was a heat sink on the amplifier module. This was not there originally. This suggests that they knew there was a heat problem with the amplifier. I added a small muffin fan to help circulate the air to the heat sink. The "repaired" unit still works BUT makes a popping sound from time to time. I also recall that Stereophile gave a poor review to Velodyne's full range speaker. This resulted in a nasty letter from Velodyne and they pulled their advertising. -MIKE |
#16
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Velodyne warranty, was HSU or Velodyne Sub?
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#17
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
I agree. It's hard to believe the build date is the sole starting point
for warranty coverage. It is more likely the build date is a reference point for warranty issues that may arise from a faulty run of products or other known problems with products built within an identifiable range of dates. Randy It certainly isn't the law in California. State law trumps the manufacturer in such matters. |
#18
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
"Gene Poon" wrote in message
news:qpgqc.71797$iF6.6083451@attbi_s02... MIKE wrote: I would recommend the HSU. Not because it sounds "better" than the Velodyne but because I had two velodynes that failed. The amplifier failed and in one case damaged the driver. Because they were over three years old (out of warranty) Velodyne refused to repair one of them until i became "nasty"... ====================================== Velodyne purchasers should note that their warranty "clock" starts ticking on the day the subwoofer is built, so when you buy it, part of the warranty is already history. The build date is on the serial number label. Don't think you can "fake" it; they have a file with serial numbers and corresponding build dates. -GP I'd be interested to know where you came by this idea, since it does not follow any state law I know of. In the matter of subwoofers, I would by nothing until I had compared it to a sub from Adire. The 12" Shiva driver is quite possible the best bang for the buck in subwoofers. 650 watts of power handling and an Xmax of 16.6 mm ONE WAY! They offer both finished subs and kits. www.adireaudio.com I have no connection to them other than as a satisfied customer and owner of a Shiva woofer. |
#19
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
Michael McKelvy wrote:
I agree. It's hard to believe the build date is the sole starting point for warranty coverage. It is more likely the build date is a reference point for warranty issues that may arise from a faulty run of products or other known problems with products built within an identifiable range of dates. Randy It certainly isn't the law in California. State law trumps the manufacturer in such matters. I already got it straightened out by direct communications with Velodyne. Their warranty does, indeed begin with date of purchase, but they review the build date on every warranty claim, in an attempt to weed out fraudulent claims, selling of discontinued merchandise through unauthorized dealers, etc., remaindering and sales of distressed merchandise, etc.; all of which void the warranty. -GP |
#20
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
Well it looks like i will never buy Velodyne products based on what i am
reading. Besides i own an HSU VTF-1 and am completely satisfied....(thank you QAUDIO) |
#21
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
In article qpgqc.71797$iF6.6083451@attbi_s02, Gene Poon wrote:
MIKE wrote: I would recommend the HSU. Not because it sounds "better" than the Velodyne but because I had two velodynes that failed. The amplifier failed and in one case damaged the driver. Because they were over three years old (out of warranty) Velodyne refused to repair one of them until i became "nasty"... ====================================== Velodyne purchasers should note that their warranty "clock" starts ticking on the day the subwoofer is built, so when you buy it, part of the warranty is already history. The build date is on the serial number label. Don't think you can "fake" it; they have a file with serial numbers and corresponding build dates. -GP That is illegal where i live. The warranty begins when purchased. |
#22
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
In article hhasc.48426$gr.4821009@attbi_s52, Gene Poon wrote:
Michael McKelvy wrote: I agree. It's hard to believe the build date is the sole starting point for warranty coverage. It is more likely the build date is a reference point for warranty issues that may arise from a faulty run of products or other known problems with products built within an identifiable range of dates. Randy It certainly isn't the law in California. State law trumps the manufacturer in such matters. I already got it straightened out by direct communications with Velodyne. Their warranty does, indeed begin with date of purchase, but they review the build date on every warranty claim, in an attempt to weed out fraudulent claims, selling of discontinued merchandise through unauthorized dealers, etc., remaindering and sales of distressed Still doesnt matter where i live. If sold new in box, the warranty starts when purchased regardless of who sells it. If its a legit retail packaged item, its from date of purchase. The manufacturer cannot selectively decide they wont warrant it. merchandise, etc.; all of which void the warranty. -GP |
#23
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
Many companies go out of their way to keep their customers happy. From
what I am reading here and from my experience, it seems that Velodyne is not one of them. It would make sense to only purchase from companies that have good reputations for customer service. -MIKE |
#24
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HSU or Velodyne Sub?
"Gene Poon" wrote in message
news:to7rc.39371$6f5.4136955@attbi_s54... (Dave Platt) wrote in message I agree. It's hard to believe the build date is the sole starting point for warranty coverage. Agreed. It is more likely the build date is a reference point for warranty issues that may arise from a faulty run of products or other known problems with products built within an identifiable range of dates. ======================================= I just contacted Velodyne directly about this. The two-year warranty clock on their subwoofers begins ticking on the DATE OF PURCHASE. But the build date is always checked before authorization is issued for return of product for repair, and Velodyne implies that warranty claims have been rejected if too long a time appears to have elapsed between build date and the claimed sale date to the end user. The reason why the build date is always checked is to verify "reasonableness" of the warranty claim. Just as speculation: perhaps they have had warranty claim issues with units sold to non-authorized dealers at a discount after being discontinued; from old stock after an authorized dealer had closed its doors; with used units sold as "new"; or with falsification of sale documents to show a later date of purchase than is actual. My apologies for misunderstanding. -Gene Poon but why would they take this out on the consumer, I think if something like this happened they would be willing to bend over backwards. |
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