[ST]

Hi to all,

Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly
make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it
is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing
in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to
come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located
somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each
speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car
center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front
which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet
in front of me.

So I went home pulled 4 x 4ft Roxul rock wool fiber (4 in thick) and
placed it between the loudspeakers to see what's the effect it going
be. It was extending 2 feet front and back from the center of spearing
the left and right speakers completely. Sitting position is about 8.5
ft. I hope you guys give your opinion what the rock wool is going to
do the sound before I post my observation. I know the golden rule is
there shouldn't be anything in between loudspeakers but in this case
the roxul wool is 4 in thick and have good absorption over wide range
of frequencies.

Thanks

ST

[Dick Pierce[_2_]]

ST wrote:
Hi to all,

Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly
make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it
is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing
in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to
come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located
somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each
speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car
center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front
which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet
in front of me.

I'd bet good money that if you looked on the top of the dash,
you'd find two small tweeters firing up and reflecting off the
windshield. That's why you're localizing the sound to there
and not to the speakers in the doors. The high frequencies
of those tweeters is triggering your aural localization, and
overwhelming the localization from the in-door speakers.

Your proposed experiment with the absorber between the speakers
is likely to fail, since the effect you seek (what you hear
in your car) is not anything like what you think it is.


--
+--------------------------------+
+ Dick Pierce |
+ Professional Audio Development |
+--------------------------------+

[ST]

On Aug 2, 4:55*am, Dick Pierce wrote:
ST wrote:
Hi to all,

Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly
make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it
is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing
in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to
come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located
somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each
speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car
center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front
which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet
in front of me.

I'd bet good money that if you looked on the top of the dash,
you'd find two small tweeters firing up and reflecting off the
windshield. That's why you're localizing the sound to there
and not to the speakers in the doors. The high frequencies
of those tweeters is triggering your aural localization, and
overwhelming the localization from the in-door speakers.

Your proposed experiment with the absorber between the speakers
is likely to fail, since the effect you seek (what you hear
in your car) is not anything like what you think it is.

--
+--------------------------------+
+ * * * * Dick Pierce * * * * * *|
+ Professional Audio Development |
+--------------------------------+

Hi,

Yes, the two tweeters are on the dashboard but even with them turned
off the sound is still coming from the front though bit lower and
obviously lacking clarity. You are still unable to pin point where the
speakers located.

Regarding my experiment -

I used Roger Waters -Amused to Death, Track 8 - Too much rope.

Rgds,
ST

[Dick Pierce[_2_]]

ST wrote:
On Aug 2, 4:55 am, Dick Pierce wrote:
ST wrote:
Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly
make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it
is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing
in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to
come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located
somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each
speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car
center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front
which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet
in front of me.

I'd bet good money that if you looked on the top of the dash,
you'd find two small tweeters firing up and reflecting off the
windshield. That's why you're localizing the sound to there
and not to the speakers in the doors. The high frequencies
of those tweeters is triggering your aural localization, and
overwhelming the localization from the in-door speakers.

Yes, the two tweeters are on the dashboard but even with them turned
off the sound is still coming from the front though bit lower and
obviously lacking clarity. You are still unable to pin point where the
speakers located.

And how did you "turn the tweeters off?"

--
+--------------------------------+
+ Dick Pierce |
+ Professional Audio Development |
+--------------------------------+

[Norman Schwartz]

On Aug 2, 12:33*am, ST wrote:
On Aug 2, 4:55*am, Dick Pierce wrote:





ST wrote:
Hi to all,

Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly
make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it
is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing
in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to
come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located
somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each
speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car
center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front
which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet
in front of me.

I'd bet good money that if you looked on the top of the dash,
you'd find two small tweeters firing up and reflecting off the
windshield. That's why you're localizing the sound to there
and not to the speakers in the doors. The high frequencies
of those tweeters is triggering your aural localization, and
overwhelming the localization from the in-door speakers.

Your proposed experiment with the absorber between the speakers
is likely to fail, since the effect you seek (what you hear
in your car) is not anything like what you think it is.

--
+--------------------------------+
+ * * * * Dick Pierce * * * * * *|
+ Professional Audio Development |
+--------------------------------+

Hi,

Yes, the two tweeters are on the dashboard but even with them turned
off the sound is still coming from the front though bit lower and
obviously lacking clarity. You are still unable to pin point where the
speakers located.

Regarding my experiment -

I used Roger Waters -Amused to Death, Track 8 - Too much rope.

Since the proximity and relections with respect to your listening
room's boundaries, as well as its volume are nothing like you car's,
isn't your experiment somewhat meaningless regardless of its outcome?

Norman

[ST]

On Aug 2, 11:23*pm, Dick Pierce wrote:
ST wrote:
On Aug 2, 4:55 am, Dick Pierce wrote:
ST wrote:
Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly
make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it
is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing
in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to
come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located
somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each
speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car
center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front
which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet
in front of me.

I'd bet good money that if you looked on the top of the dash,
you'd find two small tweeters firing up and reflecting off the
windshield. That's why you're localizing the sound to there
and not to the speakers in the doors. The high frequencies
of those tweeters is triggering your aural localization, and
overwhelming the localization from the in-door speakers.

Yes, the two tweeters are on the dashboard but even with them turned
off the sound is still coming from the front though bit lower and
obviously lacking clarity. You are still unable to pin point where the
speakers located.

And how did you "turn the tweeters off?"

--
+--------------------------------+
+ * * * * Dick Pierce * * * * * *|
+ Professional Audio Development |
+--------------------------------+

From source to electronic crossover and then split to mid, sub and
tweeter Amp. You can turn off at crossover or at the Tweeter's Amp.

[ST]

I wouldn't say meaningless but impractical, yes. No one wants to see a
4 inch panel protruding two feet to the front in the center of the
room.

I think it helps for better separation and localisation of sound . I
know Track 8 the sleigh comes from my BACK and goes to left and right
with consistent volume. Previously it was coming in front of me as
described by http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue18/waters.htm .

It was just an experiment and I thought people with acoustic
engineering, sound recording engineers or similar background may want
to give their input. I am hearing a difference and for now I am
confining to Track 8 -Too much Rope.

Regards,
ST





On Aug 3, 12:14*am, Norman Schwartz wrote:
On Aug 2, 12:33*am, ST wrote:





On Aug 2, 4:55*am, Dick Pierce wrote:

ST wrote:
Hi to all,

Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly
make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it
is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing
in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to
come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located
somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each
speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car
center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front
which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet
in front of me.

I'd bet good money that if you looked on the top of the dash,
you'd find two small tweeters firing up and reflecting off the
windshield. That's why you're localizing the sound to there
and not to the speakers in the doors. The high frequencies
of those tweeters is triggering your aural localization, and
overwhelming the localization from the in-door speakers.

Your proposed experiment with the absorber between the speakers
is likely to fail, since the effect you seek (what you hear
in your car) is not anything like what you think it is.

--
+--------------------------------+
+ * * * * Dick Pierce * * * * * *|
+ Professional Audio Development |
+--------------------------------+

Hi,

Yes, the two tweeters are on the dashboard but even with them turned
off the sound is still coming from the front though bit lower and
obviously lacking clarity. You are still unable to pin point where the
speakers located.

Regarding my experiment -

I used Roger Waters -Amused to Death, Track 8 - Too much rope.

Since the proximity and relections with respect to your listening
room's boundaries, as well as its *volume are nothing like you car's,
isn't your experiment somewhat meaningless regardless of its outcome?

Norman

[ST]

On Aug 3, 6:35*pm, ST wrote:
I wouldn't say meaningless but impractical, yes. No one wants to see a
4 inch panel protruding two feet to the front in the center of the
room.

I think it helps for better separation and localisation of sound . I
know Track 8 the sleigh comes from my BACK and goes to left and right
with consistent volume. Previously it was coming in front of me as
described byhttp://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue18/waters.htm.

It was just an experiment and I thought people with acoustic
engineering, sound recording engineers or similar background may want
to give their input. I am hearing a difference and for now I am
confining to Track 8 -Too much Rope.

Regards,
ST

On Aug 3, 12:14*am, Norman Schwartz wrote:



On Aug 2, 12:33*am, ST wrote:

On Aug 2, 4:55*am, Dick Pierce wrote:

ST wrote:
Hi to all,

Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly
make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it
is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing
in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to
come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located
somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each
speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car
center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front
which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet
in front of me.

I'd bet good money that if you looked on the top of the dash,
you'd find two small tweeters firing up and reflecting off the
windshield. That's why you're localizing the sound to there
and not to the speakers in the doors. The high frequencies
of those tweeters is triggering your aural localization, and
overwhelming the localization from the in-door speakers.

Your proposed experiment with the absorber between the speakers
is likely to fail, since the effect you seek (what you hear
in your car) is not anything like what you think it is.

--
+--------------------------------+
+ * * * * Dick Pierce * * * * * *|
+ Professional Audio Development |
+--------------------------------+

Hi,

Yes, the two tweeters are on the dashboard but even with them turned
off the sound is still coming from the front though bit lower and
obviously lacking clarity. You are still unable to pin point where the
speakers located.

Regarding my experiment -

I used Roger Waters -Amused to Death, Track 8 - Too much rope.

Since the proximity and relections with respect to your listening
room's boundaries, as well as its *volume are nothing like you car's,
isn't your experiment somewhat meaningless regardless of its outcome?

Norman

Correction - I meant to say it comes closer to face right from left
much FORWARD from the speaker with consistent volume. (Ignore - I
know Track 8 the sleigh comes from my BACK and goes to left and right
with consistent volume.

Sorry, Thanks

[Dick Pierce[_2_]]

ST wrote:
Norman Schwartz wrote:
Since the proximity and relections with respect to your listening
room's boundaries, as well as its volume are nothing like you car's,
isn't your experiment somewhat meaningless regardless of its outcome?
I wouldn't say meaningless but impractical, yes.

No, meaningless would be the appropriate word here.
You're changing one variable concisouly and ignoring
many, many other variables, any one of which is probably
going to have a MUCH bigger influence than the one you
are changing. You have a WILDLY different acoustic
environment in eahc case, and you say that the only
thing that's constant is the track you're listening to
and you ears, and every acoustic expert is quite familiar
with how consistently inconstant any given pair of ears
is.

A not-so-far-fetched analogy is to assume that since
the imaging you get from headphones is very different
than from speakers, you can get the speakers to image
like headphones by stiocking a skull in between them.

--
+--------------------------------+
+ Dick Pierce |
+ Professional Audio Development |
+--------------------------------+

[[email protected]]

Please forgive the top-posting. Please note the interpolations:

On Aug 1, 10:34*am, ST wrote:
Hi to all,

Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly
make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it
is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing
in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to
come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located
somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each
speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car
center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front
which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet
in front of me.

Well - consider how noisy an environment your car is most of the time.
Between wind, engine, transmission, heating and cooling, tire-noise,
vibration and so forth - even in a Rolls-Royce - a vehicle is rife
with 'background' noise at the very least. Then, consider the volume -
the entire cockpit in your vehicle is smaller than most bathrooms and
many closets. Then, consider speaker placement - usually more-than-two
in any but the most basic systems - and as many as eight or ten even
in modest factory systems. So with a lot of speaker-drivers in a very
small space with lots of ambient noise, it is quite likely that you
may not be able to pick out any individual speaker from that lot.

Speakers don't need to 'see' each other. Nor do you need to 'see'
them. There are issues with speaker grills or grill cloth and acoustic
transparency, but those are well understood and taken into account.

So I went home pulled 4 x 4ft *Roxul rock wool fiber (4 in thick) and
placed it between the loudspeakers to see what's the effect it going
be.

Why you would expose yourself to that material and for that reason
passeth understanding. But apart from the wisdom of introducing rock-
wool into your living environment without protection, all it will do
in any case is cut off the highs. It will do nothing below about 1,000
hz or so, depending on its density.

It was extending 2 feet front and back from the center of spearing
the left and right speakers completely. Sitting position is about 8.5
ft.

Correct me if I am wrong but as I understand what you are writing, the
insulation goes from floor-to-ceiling, and is about 5 feet wide,
assuming the speakers are about 12" deep, and the speakers themselves
are at least two feet from the wall. (Aside: If these are conventional
speakers with conventional drivers and not planars or other
unconventional designs this sort of placement could be problematic).

I hope you guys give your opinion what the rock wool is going to
do the sound before I post my observation. I know the golden rule is
there shouldn't be anything in between loudspeakers but in this case
the roxul wool is 4 in thick and have good absorption over wide range
of frequencies.

Depending on the design of your speakers, at best it will do very
little - certainly not a whole lot with the low end, and the only
conceivable effect it could have would be on the high end. At worst,
you will get the effect of having your speakers far too far apart -
essentially two point-sources vs. a blend in the middle with spatial
information properly spread across them.

Opinion: Good speakers DO disappear. If they are properly placed and
properly amplified (sufficient power that they do not clip at a
meaningful volume) and with good signal - sitting in the general
'sweet spot' with your eyes closed, you should not be able to point
out either speaker exactly. Individual instruments or voices, with
well-recorded souces, certainly. But the speakers, not so much. Note
also that the better the speakers, the 'larger' that sweet spot will
be.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[g]

On Aug 1, 10:34*am, ST wrote:
Hi to all,

Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly
make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it
is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing
in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to
come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located
somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each
speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car
center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front
which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet
in front of me.

So I went home pulled 4 x 4ft *Roxul rock wool fiber (4 in thick) and
placed it between the loudspeakers to see what's the effect it going
be. It was extending 2 feet front and back from the center of spearing
the left and right speakers completely. Sitting position is about 8.5
ft. I hope you guys give your opinion what the rock wool is going to
do the sound before I post my observation. I know the golden rule is
there shouldn't be anything in between loudspeakers but in this case
the roxul wool is 4 in thick and have good absorption over wide range
of frequencies.

Thanks

I don't know what you hear, but adding acoustic padding inside a
vehicle is something that is needed and few do.

greg

[ST]

On Aug 3, 10:59*pm, Dick Pierce wrote:

snipped for brevity

No, meaningless would be the appropriate word here.
You're changing one variable concisouly and ignoring
many, many other variables, any one of which is probably
going to have a MUCH bigger influence than the one you
are changing. You have a WILDLY different acoustic
environment in eahc case, and you say that the only
thing that's constant is the track you're listening to
and you ears, and every acoustic expert is quite familiar
with how consistently inconstant any given pair of ears
is.

I have to agree with this. Sometimes our brain dictates what and where
we hear the sound coming from. In the past 3 days, I think my own
perception of the likely/anticipated outcome somewhat influenced the
real changes.

A not-so-far-fetched analogy is to assume that since
the imaging you get from headphones is very different
than from speakers, you can get the speakers to image
like headphones by stiocking a skull in between them.


LOL....Soon some tweaks may emerge from your suggestion.

[ST]

On Aug 4, 5:42*am, " wrote:
Peter wrote:-

snipped for brevity

Correct me if I am wrong but as I understand what you are writing, the
insulation goes from floor-to-ceiling, and is about 5 feet wide,
assuming the speakers are about 12" deep, and the speakers themselves
are at least two feet from the wall. (Aside: If these are conventional
speakers with conventional drivers and not planars or other
unconventional designs this sort of placement could be problematic).


It was 4 x 4 ft with the thickness of 4 inch. The were placed in
between the two loudspeakers dividing them left and right
symmetrically . The only part visible to me is the 4 inch thick
rockwool standing 4 ft tall in between the 2 loudspeakers in the
centre.

However, as suggested here I did have have significant loss of high
frequencies. Guess, Norman was right - meaningless.

Thanks, guys.
ST

[ extra quoting snipped --dsr ]

[ST]

On Aug 4, 5:42*am, " wrote:
Please forgive the top-posting. Please note the interpolations:

On Aug 1, 10:34*am, ST wrote:

Hi to all,

Recently, a friend was talking about High End system which supposedly
make the loudspeakers disappear. While driving back I realized that it
is much more easier to achieve the act of making speakers disappearing
in a car then our room. The front sound from my car speakers appear to
come from the dashboard/bonnet even though the speakers are located
somewhere below my knee level on my right and left door and each
speakers can't see each other because they were blocked by the car
center components. But they project the sound beautiful to my front
which makes them appear to come from the windscreen/dashboard/bonnet
in front of me.

Well - consider how noisy an environment your car is most of the time.
Between wind, engine, transmission, heating and cooling, tire-noise,
vibration and so forth - even in a Rolls-Royce - a vehicle is rife
with 'background' noise at the very least. Then, consider the volume -
the entire cockpit in your vehicle is smaller than most bathrooms and
many closets. Then, consider speaker placement - usually more-than-two
in any but the most basic systems - and as many as eight or ten even
in modest factory systems. So with a lot of speaker-drivers in a very
small space with lots of ambient noise, it is quite likely that you
may not be able to pick out any individual speaker from that lot.

Speakers don't need to 'see' each other. Nor do you need to 'see'
them. There are issues with speaker grills or grill cloth and acoustic
transparency, but those are well understood and taken into account.

So I went home pulled 4 x 4ft *Roxul rock wool fiber (4 in thick) and
placed it between the loudspeakers to see what's the effect it going
be.

Why you would expose yourself to that material and for that reason
passeth understanding. But apart from the wisdom of introducing rock-
wool into your living environment without protection, all it will do
in any case is cut off the highs. It will do nothing below about 1,000
hz or so, depending on its density.

It was extending 2 feet front and back from the center of spearing
the left and right speakers completely. Sitting position is about 8.5
ft.

Correct me if I am wrong but as I understand what you are writing, the
insulation goes from floor-to-ceiling, and is about 5 feet wide,
assuming the speakers are about 12" deep, and the speakers themselves
are at least two feet from the wall. (Aside: If these are conventional
speakers with conventional drivers and not planars or other
unconventional designs this sort of placement could be problematic).

I hope you guys give your opinion what the rock wool is going to
do the sound before I post my observation. I know the golden rule is
there shouldn't be anything in between loudspeakers but in this case
the roxul wool is 4 in thick and have good absorption over wide range
of frequencies.

Depending on the design of your speakers, at best it will do very
little - certainly not a whole lot with the low end, and the only
conceivable effect it could have would be on the high end. At worst,
you will get the effect of having your speakers far too far apart -
essentially two point-sources vs. a blend in the middle with spatial
information properly spread across them.

Opinion: Good speakers DO disappear. If they are properly placed and
properly amplified (sufficient power that they do not clip at a
meaningful volume) and with good signal - sitting in the general
'sweet spot' with your eyes closed, you should not be able to point
out either speaker exactly. Individual instruments or voices, with
well-recorded souces, certainly. But the speakers, not so much. Note
also that the better the speakers, the 'larger' that sweet spot will
be.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Maybe, this will give you a better picture..

This is the top view of the placement of speakers , rockwool,
subwoofer and sitting position.
B= room border, R = rockwool, SUB= subwoofer, S=sitting position

Top view

BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
B R B
B L R L B
B R B
BSUB B
B B
B S B
B B
B B
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB

Front view

BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
B B
B B
B R B
B L R L B
B L R L B
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB

[[email protected]]

Your idea reminds me of the Ambiophonics approach that has been in
development for years now. It started with a physical "trap" between
speakers but now has an electronic analog of same. The "trap" is only
part of an entire approach which consists of several parts.

I have adopted many ideas he uses to good effect, absent the "trap" by
using other of the parts, which he suggests one can do.

http://www.ambiophonics.org/

[Rick[_4_]]

Didn't Polk try something similar with their SDA series?

Rick
wrote in message
...
Your idea reminds me of the Ambiophonics approach that has been in
development for years now. It started with a physical "trap" between
speakers but now has an electronic analog of same. The "trap" is only
part of an entire approach which consists of several parts.

I have adopted many ideas he uses to good effect, absent the "trap" by
using other of the parts, which he suggests one can do.

http://www.ambiophonics.org/

[ST]

On Aug 7, 3:42*am, "Rick" wrote:
Didn't Polk try something similar with their SDA series?

wrote in message

...



Your idea reminds me of the Ambiophonics approach that has been in
development for years now. *It started with a physical "trap" between
speakers but now has an electronic analog of same. *The "trap" is only
part of an entire approach which consists of several parts.

I have adopted many ideas he uses to good effect, absent the "trap" by
using other of the parts, which he suggests one can do.

http://www.ambiophonics.org/

After 8 years I am finally getting ATD to sound as exactly as
described in terms of imaging, I think it is worth a try but only if
the room is moderately small. IMHO only

Rgds,
ST

[[email protected]]

This particular exchange has caused me to ask a couple of questions of
the assembled multitude - first a preamble, with the statement for the
record that I am writing for myself and stating _only_ my opinions.

For me, listening to music in a comfortable setting is an important
part of my life. I have the means and space to indulge in this hobby
but at the same time, I do not see it as the controlling/dominating
factor in my use of space. So, the concept of a dedicated listening
room built around a specific 'sweet-spot' and all the parts-and-pieces
thereto I perceive as both unnecessary and selfish. There is
absolutely no reason at all that excellent sound cannot be generated
in very nearly every possible sort of living space in which one might
choose to listen to music in the first place. And, that this may be
done without heroic measures, sacrificing basic aesthetics or making
the space otherwise unlivable.

So, the questions: How many of you have a dedicated listening 'room'?

Why?

If not, why not?

And if you wish to describe how you have achieved whatever choice you
have made - that is even better.

Thanks in advance!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Sonnova]

On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 15:02:05 -0700, wrote
(in article ):

This particular exchange has caused me to ask a couple of questions of
the assembled multitude - first a preamble, with the statement for the
record that I am writing for myself and stating _only_ my opinions.

For me, listening to music in a comfortable setting is an important
part of my life. I have the means and space to indulge in this hobby
but at the same time, I do not see it as the controlling/dominating
factor in my use of space. So, the concept of a dedicated listening
room built around a specific 'sweet-spot' and all the parts-and-pieces
thereto I perceive as both unnecessary and selfish. There is
absolutely no reason at all that excellent sound cannot be generated
in very nearly every possible sort of living space in which one might
choose to listen to music in the first place. And, that this may be
done without heroic measures, sacrificing basic aesthetics or making
the space otherwise unlivable.

So, the questions: How many of you have a dedicated listening 'room'?

Why?

If not, why not?

The "not" should be obvious, Room, money, wives, kids, etc.
Since I'm blessed with having been a life-long bachelor, whose money is his
own and has no obligations other than those to satisfy his own interests and
passions, My living room IS my dedicated listening room (media room actually,
since I also have a 60" HDTV between my Martin Logans).

And if you wish to describe how you have achieved whatever choice you
have made - that is even better.

Thanks in advance!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[ST]

On Aug 10, 6:02*am, " wrote:
This particular exchange has caused me to ask a couple of questions of
the assembled multitude - first a preamble, with the statement for the
record that I am writing for myself and stating _only_ my opinions.

For me, listening to music in a comfortable setting is an important
part of my life. I have the means and space to indulge in this hobby
but at the same time, I do not see it as the controlling/dominating
factor in my use of space. So, the concept of a dedicated listening
room built around a specific 'sweet-spot' and all the parts-and-pieces
thereto I perceive as both unnecessary and selfish.

Selfish? - only if you are taking away the space from the rest of the
family. In my country, many do not have the space or a good distance
from the house next door. For years I was playing in my common area of
my home but only at moderate level. And usually, I lower the volume
to normal at 10 00pm so that I do not disturb the neighbours. And sub
woofer was practically silenced so that no one get to hear the
irritating "boom" "boom" "boom". Unfortunately, I can't say the same
about others who happily play their HT where the bass will be
bothering me (it bothers me more than the rest of my family, perhaps I
am more sensitive to deep bass?) and disturbs my listening session. So
now with a dedicated room, with good sound proofing, I have the
freedom to push the volume to more realistic level and play at any
time without the need to worry about police knocking on to your door.

There is
absolutely no reason at all that excellent sound cannot be generated
in very nearly every possible sort of living space in which one might
choose to listen to music in the first place. And, that this may be
done without heroic measures, sacrificing basic aesthetics or making
the space otherwise unlivable.

Yes, possible. I have 3 systems at home. but see above for why a
dedicated room. And my dedicated room definitely sounds so much better
because the freedom I can have to put arrange, rearrange, hang and
what not till I get the best desirable sound without the need to get
wife's approval.


So, the questions: How many of you have a dedicated listening 'room'?

Why?

If not, why not?

And if you wish to describe how you have achieved whatever choice you
have made - that is even better.

As I have mentioned above, the good thing about dedicated room is the
freedom to you to enjoy your music without being bothered by outside
interference and most importantly I can enjoy my love without imposing
on others. For me, I don't believe spending a few thousand dollars on
some High Fi racks. Most of mine staked on granite on whatever solid
wood rack cabinet I can find. Didn't bother to hide the cables or need
to be brand conscious about using cheap cables etc etc.

But the truth, I enjoyed when I play the music in common area because
it gave me a sense of freedom and space. Every audiophile dream is to
probably to put it where it is accessible and enjoyed by many. Why
would one want to hide their B&W nautilus in a small room?

Just my humble opinion.

Regards,
ST

[Greg Wormald[_2_]]

For many years I have made my living room into my listening room.

Partly this was a conscious choice as the accoutrements of my life
(books, records, shelving, carpets, furniture, etc) all are an essential
part of my listening--if only for their sound properties when properly
distributed around the room.

No TV in this room--sitting, conversation, music only.

Greg


In article ,
" wrote:

This particular exchange has caused me to ask a couple of questions of
the assembled multitude - first a preamble, with the statement for the
record that I am writing for myself and stating _only_ my opinions.

For me, listening to music in a comfortable setting is an important
part of my life. I have the means and space to indulge in this hobby
but at the same time, I do not see it as the controlling/dominating
factor in my use of space. So, the concept of a dedicated listening
room built around a specific 'sweet-spot' and all the parts-and-pieces
thereto I perceive as both unnecessary and selfish. There is
absolutely no reason at all that excellent sound cannot be generated
in very nearly every possible sort of living space in which one might
choose to listen to music in the first place. And, that this may be
done without heroic measures, sacrificing basic aesthetics or making
the space otherwise unlivable.

So, the questions: How many of you have a dedicated listening 'room'?

Why?

If not, why not?

And if you wish to describe how you have achieved whatever choice you
have made - that is even better.

Thanks in advance!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Fred.]

On Aug 9, 6:02*pm, " wrote:
This particular exchange has caused me to ask a couple of questions of
the assembled multitude - first a preamble, with the statement for the
record that I am writing for myself and stating _only_ my opinions.

For me, listening to music in a comfortable setting is an important
part of my life. I have the means and space to indulge in this hobby
but at the same time, I do not see it as the controlling/dominating
factor in my use of space. So, the concept of a dedicated listening
room built around a specific 'sweet-spot' and all the parts-and-pieces
thereto I perceive as both unnecessary and selfish. There is
absolutely no reason at all that excellent sound cannot be generated
in very nearly every possible sort of living space in which one might
choose to listen to music in the first place. And, that this may be
done without heroic measures, sacrificing basic aesthetics or making
the space otherwise unlivable.

So, the questions: How many of you have a dedicated listening 'room'?

Why?

If not, why not?

And if you wish to describe how you have achieved whatever choice you
have made - that is even better.

Thanks in advance!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

My living room holds a system for music, movies, and a little TV, plus
a piano and a desk. The listening area doubles a conversation area.
My office holds a system for music. Like you, I could probalbly come
up with a better, and quieter listening area, but I like the
opportunities to share and socialize, and the fact that I can get up
and walk to the kitchen without totally losing the thread of the
music.

The living room was particularly challenging because it was
excessively live for multi-channel and, worse, is part of a nearly U-
shaped area with each dimension close to 25 feet. I looked into
various accoustical treatments for the area, and simply couldn't find
anything acceptable from a financial or a decor standpoint, let alone
both.

I finally decided that a Denon reciver and muli-player connected by
their proprietary link which allows the digital equalization to work
on high end media such as SACD and DVD-A was the best compromise. I'm
sure the purists will despise this arrangement, but it makes a bad
room very listenable. In fact, it makes it suitable for both stereo
and multichannel with one setting which only evens out the immediate
frequency response, and another which cuts the ringing frequencies for
multichannel. The system produces very good stereo and 5-channel
images.

The final issue was the huge standing wave just below 50hz. I spent
hours shoving the subwoofer around trying and failing to find a spot
that worked, finally choosing bad over worse. Again, my solution was
equalization. I bought a good digital equalizer, with notch filters,
on the cheap because it had 48K sampling, perfectly fine for
frequencies below 100HZ and the new ones were coming out at 96K.
Using this between my receiver and the sub took care of most of the
problem though once in a while sustained LFE at the critical frequency
can be far more intense than was intended in the production.

This system has been in place for 7 years and I am still happy with
it, which, I guess, proves I'm not really an audiophile. I don't
think my wife understands the effort and expense, but she has a good
ear, and I notice she joins me in listening more than before I fixed
things up.

My system at the office was a lot easier, since to keep the levels
acceptable for both me and others, I had to have the speakers close.
The main innovation was to build a shelf elevating my computer
monitors off my table, so that I could put the center channel under
them. The front 3 are small NHT Superaudios which seem to work fine
as close monitors, but I use micros for surrounds because of space
limitations. I also bought a cheap 10" subwoofer, and packed the
sound column with polyfill. Packing it cleaned it up a great deal and
still left enough output to give music plenty of bottom from under my
table.

Fred.

[ST]

On Aug 4, 5:42*am, " wrote:
Rest snipped for brevity

....
Why you would expose yourself to that material and for that reason
passeth understanding. But apart from the wisdom of introducing rock-
wool into your living environment without protection, all it will do
in any case is cut off the highs. It will do nothing below about 1,000
hz or so, depending on its density.


You really got me worried there. Did some checks and Roxul referred me
to this http://www.rockwool.com/files/rockwo..._release_1.pdf
and I have sealed them with a fine cloth for double protection.

Regarding the technical aspect of sound absorption. the data I was
provided is as follows:-
Acoustical Performance
ASTM C423
CO-EFFICIENTS AT FREQUENCIES
Thickness 125 Hz 250 Hz 500 Hz 1000 Hz 2000 Hz 4000 Hz NRC
1.0” 0.11 0.31 0.82 1.01 1.02 1.01 0.80
1.5” 0.21 0.64 0.92 1.00 0.95 1.01 0.90
2.0” 0.43 0.78 0.90 0.97 0.97 1.00 0.90
3.0” 0.75 0.82 0.89 0.94 1.00 1.00 0.90

Please note my Roxul is 4" thick.

ST

[Greg Wormald[_2_]]

For many years I have made my living room into my listening room.

Partly this was a conscious choice as the accoutrements of my life
(books, records, shelving, carpets, furniture, etc) all are an essential
part of my listening--if only for their sound properties when properly
distributed around the room.

No TV in this room--sitting, conversation, music only.

Greg

In article ,
" wrote:

This particular exchange has caused me to ask a couple of questions of
the assembled multitude - first a preamble, with the statement for the
record that I am writing for myself and stating _only_ my opinions.

For me, listening to music in a comfortable setting is an important
part of my life. I have the means and space to indulge in this hobby
but at the same time, I do not see it as the controlling/dominating
factor in my use of space. So, the concept of a dedicated listening
room built around a specific 'sweet-spot' and all the parts-and-pieces
thereto I perceive as both unnecessary and selfish. There is
absolutely no reason at all that excellent sound cannot be generated
in very nearly every possible sort of living space in which one might
choose to listen to music in the first place. And, that this may be
done without heroic measures, sacrificing basic aesthetics or making
the space otherwise unlivable.

So, the questions: How many of you have a dedicated listening 'room'?

Why?

If not, why not?

And if you wish to describe how you have achieved whatever choice you
have made - that is even better.

Thanks in advance!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Scott[_6_]]

On Aug 9, 3:02*pm, " wrote:
This particular exchange has caused me to ask a couple of questions of
the assembled multitude - first a preamble, with the statement for the
record that I am writing for myself and stating _only_ my opinions.

For me, listening to music in a comfortable setting is an important
part of my life. I have the means and space to indulge in this hobby
but at the same time, I do not see it as the controlling/dominating
factor in my use of space. So, the concept of a dedicated listening
room built around a specific 'sweet-spot' and all the parts-and-pieces
thereto I perceive as both unnecessary and selfish. There is
absolutely no reason at all that excellent sound cannot be generated
in very nearly every possible sort of living space in which one might
choose to listen to music in the first place. And, that this may be
done without heroic measures, sacrificing basic aesthetics or making
the space otherwise unlivable.

So, the questions: How many of you have a dedicated listening 'room'?

I do.



Why?


Because the room is one of the most important components of a playback
system and the means by which one makes the most of such a room in my
case requires that it serve one primary function. It allows me to do
what I wish without worry of alternative usage.



If not, why not?

And if you wish to describe how you have achieved whatever choice you
have made - that is even better.

I'm not sure what you mean by "achieve?" It was a simple choice so I
suppose I achieved in when we chose this house. It was a requisit to
have a room I could use as a dedicated listening room when we were
house shopping. I will soon be moving again and it will again be a
requisit. This time I am going to be even more demanding of size.

[Ed Presson[_2_]]

So, the questions: How many of you have a dedicated listening 'room'?

Why?

If not, why not?

Yes, I have a dedicated listening room. Actually, the room (about 15' x
28') has two
purposes: a artist's studio for painting, and a listening room.

Why? No one else likes classical music as I do. This room allows me to
listen to what I want when I want. It also keeps paint fumes away from the
rest of the house.

Because my easel is set up at one end under a skylight, surround sound has
not been attempted. I have added several layers of used carpeting on the
floor and 32 sq. ft.
of sound conditioning on the wall and ceilings to defeat the most obvious
reflecting
surfaces. The room sounds pretty good, and--if I were truly dedicated about
it--could be further improved since there are no decor limitations.

Best wishes,

Ed Presson