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#1
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Turntables with "thick" platters
Hi,
I recently came across high-end turntables featuring very thick platters, such as the Scout or Aries series by VPI. I'm really wondering what the advantage of such platters is, what difference it makes. I noticed that a single platter can cost up to 2,000$. What makes them so expensive? Thanks in advance. Raph |
#2
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Turntables with "thick" platters
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 10:29:29 -0800 (PST), mrgou
wrote: Hi, I recently came across high-end turntables featuring very thick platters, such as the Scout or Aries series by VPI. I'm really wondering what the advantage of such platters is, what difference it makes. I noticed that a single platter can cost up to 2,000$. What makes them so expensive? More weight, particularly at the perimenter, increases their angular momentum. Supposedly, it increases speed stability. Kal |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.misc
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Turntables with "thick" platters
"mrgou" wrote in message
Hi, I recently came across high-end turntables featuring very thick platters, such as the Scout or Aries series by VPI. I'm really wondering what the advantage of such platters is, what difference it makes. I noticed that a single platter can cost up to 2,000$. What makes them so expensive? Perceived value. I've been trying to collect actual performance measurements on LP playback systems. While I don't have enough data to claim a definitive result, it appears that sound quality (if accuracy is desired) goes down once the TT=arm+cart $600. The more expensive cartrdiges in particular seem to have a broad, gentle roll-off and perhaps more low-order nonlinear distortion. |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.misc
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Turntables with "thick" platters
mrgou wrote: Hi, I recently came across high-end turntables featuring very thick platters, such as the Scout or Aries series by VPI. I'm really wondering what the advantage of such platters is, what difference it makes. I noticed that a single platter can cost up to 2,000$. What makes them so expensive? Marketing hype mostly @ that price. The mass of a 'thick turntable' helps smooth out wow and flutter. The one on my Garrard 401 weighs 6-7 poubds IIRC and the wight is mainly at the outer edge where it helps best. However modern drive motors should need such help. The 401 merely had a synchronous motor, not a crystal locked servo one like a modern turntable should have. Graham |
#5
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Turntables with "thick" platters
Kalman Rubinson wrote: mrgou wrote: I recently came across high-end turntables featuring very thick platters, such as the Scout or Aries series by VPI. I'm really wondering what the advantage of such platters is, what difference it makes. I noticed that a single platter can cost up to 2,000$. What makes them so expensive? More weight, particularly at the perimenter, increases their angular momentum. Supposedly, it increases speed stability. NOT speed stability, that's entirely down to the motor but to smooth out flutter especially and to a lesser extent wow. Of course such problems are no longer present with digital media. Graham |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.misc
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Turntables with "thick" platters
Eeyore wrote:
mrgou wrote: Hi, I recently came across high-end turntables featuring very thick platters, such as the Scout or Aries series by VPI. I'm really wondering what the advantage of such platters is, what difference it makes. I noticed that a single platter can cost up to 2,000$. What makes them so expensive? Marketing hype mostly @ that price. The mass of a 'thick turntable' helps smooth out wow and flutter. The one on my Garrard 401 weighs 6-7 poubds IIRC and the wight is mainly at the outer edge where it helps best. However modern drive motors should need such help. The 401 merely had a synchronous motor, not a crystal locked servo one like a modern turntable should have. The wow caused by off center holes in almost ALL LP's dwarfs that caused by decent turntables themselves. |
#7
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Turntables with "thick" platters
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#8
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Turntables with "thick" platters
wrote in message
Eeyore wrote: mrgou wrote: I recently came across high-end turntables featuring very thick platters, such as the Scout or Aries series by VPI. I'm really wondering what the advantage of such platters is, what difference it makes. I noticed that a single platter can cost up to 2,000$. What makes them so expensive? Marketing hype mostly @ that price. The mass of a 'thick turntable' helps smooth out wow and flutter. The one on my Garrard 401 weighs 6-7 poubds IIRC and the wight is mainly at the outer edge where it helps best. The Garrard 401 needed that kind of mass and perhaps more, because it used a massive induction motor and an idler-wheel drive. However modern drive motors should need such help. The 401 merely had a synchronous motor, not a crystal locked servo one like a modern turntable should have. The wow caused by off center holes in almost ALL LP's dwarfs that caused by decent turntables themselves. Agreed. Excellent observation! |
#9
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Turntables with "thick" platters
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 04:24:21 +0000, Eeyore
wrote: Kalman Rubinson wrote: mrgou wrote: I recently came across high-end turntables featuring very thick platters, such as the Scout or Aries series by VPI. I'm really wondering what the advantage of such platters is, what difference it makes. I noticed that a single platter can cost up to 2,000$. What makes them so expensive? More weight, particularly at the perimenter, increases their angular momentum. Supposedly, it increases speed stability. NOT speed stability, that's entirely down to the motor but to smooth out flutter especially and to a lesser extent wow. Speed stability as flutter/wow are speed variations. Speed accuracy is the responsibility of the motor. Of course such problems are no longer present with digital media. Granted. Kal |
#10
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Turntables with "thick" platters
Kalman Rubinson wrote: Eeyore wrote: Kalman Rubinson wrote: mrgou wrote: I recently came across high-end turntables featuring very thick platters, such as the Scout or Aries series by VPI. I'm really wondering what the advantage of such platters is, what difference it makes. I noticed that a single platter can cost up to 2,000$. What makes them so expensive? More weight, particularly at the perimenter, increases their angular momentum. Supposedly, it increases speed stability. NOT speed stability, that's entirely down to the motor but to smooth out flutter especially and to a lesser extent wow. Speed stability as flutter/wow are speed variations. Speed accuracy is the responsibility of the motor. Stability is to me a long term matter, not wow and flutter and is merely 'drift' from accuracy. I recall you could adjust the speed on the 401 so the strobe light held the markers absolutely static and go back 10 mins later and it could have drifted either way. That's stability and is not helped by large platters. Graham |
#11
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Turntables with "thick" platters
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:44:59 +0000, Eeyore
wrote: Kalman Rubinson wrote: Eeyore wrote: Kalman Rubinson wrote: mrgou wrote: I recently came across high-end turntables featuring very thick platters, such as the Scout or Aries series by VPI. I'm really wondering what the advantage of such platters is, what difference it makes. I noticed that a single platter can cost up to 2,000$. What makes them so expensive? More weight, particularly at the perimenter, increases their angular momentum. Supposedly, it increases speed stability. NOT speed stability, that's entirely down to the motor but to smooth out flutter especially and to a lesser extent wow. Speed stability as flutter/wow are speed variations. Speed accuracy is the responsibility of the motor. Stability is to me a long term matter, not wow and flutter and is merely 'drift' from accuracy. I wouldn't call flutter/wow drift since the average speed is unaffected. I recall you could adjust the speed on the 401 so the strobe light held the markers absolutely static and go back 10 mins later and it could have drifted either way. That's stability and is not helped by large platters. Perhaps we should talk about short-term and long-term accuracy? ;-) Kal |
#12
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Turntables with "thick" platters
Kalman Rubinson wrote: Eeyore wrote: Kalman Rubinson wrote: Eeyore wrote: Kalman Rubinson wrote: mrgou wrote: I recently came across high-end turntables featuring very thick platters, such as the Scout or Aries series by VPI. I'm really wondering what the advantage of such platters is, what difference it makes. I noticed that a single platter can cost up to 2,000$. What makes them so expensive? More weight, particularly at the perimenter, increases their angular momentum. Supposedly, it increases speed stability. NOT speed stability, that's entirely down to the motor but to smooth out flutter especially and to a lesser extent wow. Speed stability as flutter/wow are speed variations. Speed accuracy is the responsibility of the motor. Stability is to me a long term matter, not wow and flutter and is merely 'drift' from accuracy. I wouldn't call flutter/wow drift since the average speed is unaffected. You misread me. Try adding a comma after flutter but one is not supposed to do that before an and or but. Graham |
#13
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Turntables with "thick" platters
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:03:45 +0000, Eeyore
wrote: Kalman Rubinson wrote: Eeyore wrote: Kalman Rubinson wrote: Eeyore wrote: Kalman Rubinson wrote: mrgou wrote: I recently came across high-end turntables featuring very thick platters, such as the Scout or Aries series by VPI. I'm really wondering what the advantage of such platters is, what difference it makes. I noticed that a single platter can cost up to 2,000$. What makes them so expensive? More weight, particularly at the perimenter, increases their angular momentum. Supposedly, it increases speed stability. NOT speed stability, that's entirely down to the motor but to smooth out flutter especially and to a lesser extent wow. Speed stability as flutter/wow are speed variations. Speed accuracy is the responsibility of the motor. Stability is to me a long term matter, not wow and flutter and is merely 'drift' from accuracy. I wouldn't call flutter/wow drift since the average speed is unaffected. You misread me. Try adding a comma after flutter but one is not supposed to do that before an and or but. OK. Still a matter of semantics. Any stray from absolute perfection is a problem. If that error is cyclic and the average speed over time remains correct, I would not call that a drift. OTOH, if there is a progressive deviation away from the correct, such that the long-term average is no longer correct, that seems to me to be appropriately called drift. I invite you to define these, too. Kal |
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