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  #1   Report Post  
Toby
 
Posts: n/a
Default New Song: Kathy

A very nice gentleman from this board asked me to post a request for comments
on my latest song to get everyones minds off politics and the general BS. ;-)

I would be honored if you take a listen to "Kathy"
it's an acoustic instrumental at SoundClick...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/tobybrezmusic.htm

All critique, tips, suggestions, opinions welcome.

Thanks in advance,
Toby
  #2   Report Post  
Neil Henderson
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Toby" wrote in message
om...
A very nice gentleman from this board asked me to post a request for
comments
on my latest song to get everyones minds off politics and the general BS.
;-)

I would be honored if you take a listen to "Kathy"
it's an acoustic instrumental at SoundClick...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/tobybrezmusic.htm



Very nice composition... signal chain, please? A bit much string noise for
my taste, but it's not overly annoying. Nice fiddle, was that sampled? The
guitar voicings are somewhat reminiscent of Alex DeGrassi - are you a fan of
his style?

Neil Henderson


  #3   Report Post  
Neil Henderson
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Toby" wrote in message
om...
A very nice gentleman from this board asked me to post a request for
comments
on my latest song to get everyones minds off politics and the general BS.
;-)

I would be honored if you take a listen to "Kathy"
it's an acoustic instrumental at SoundClick...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/tobybrezmusic.htm



Very nice composition... signal chain, please? A bit much string noise for
my taste, but it's not overly annoying. Nice fiddle, was that sampled? The
guitar voicings are somewhat reminiscent of Alex DeGrassi - are you a fan of
his style?

Neil Henderson


  #4   Report Post  
Toby
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Neil Henderson" wrote in message . com...
"Toby" wrote in message
om...
A very nice gentleman from this board asked me to post a request for
comments
on my latest song to get everyones minds off politics and the general BS.
;-)

I would be honored if you take a listen to "Kathy"
it's an acoustic instrumental at SoundClick...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/tobybrezmusic.htm



Very nice composition... signal chain, please? A bit much string noise for
my taste, but it's not overly annoying. Nice fiddle, was that sampled? The
guitar voicings are somewhat reminiscent of Alex DeGrassi - are you a fan of
his style?

Neil Henderson



Hey Neil,

Thanks so much for listening and the comments.
There are two guitars, Seagull S6 steel string and Alvarez nylon. 4
individual parts. All guitar parts recorded stereo with Sennheisser
MD421 and EVPL80 approx 6" away from soundhole and 12th fret. No
compression into SONAR.
Light chorus and reverb using sends. Noise reduction (fan noise) with
Soundforge NR. Light compression and limiting on mix.

Interesting comment about the fiddle... tells me a lot!
It is a sample set... Garritan GPO violin and Viola for the pad.
I'm not familiar with Alex DeGrassi but I will search him out.

Other folks have commented on the "string noise" I have a theory and
it's just my theory... Could it be we've gotten so used to sterile
samples that we are more concerned with perfect / clean that we loose
sight of the fact that guitars squeek, scratch, zing, etc...? If 4
guitarists were in a room recording this piece live, I'm thinking you
would hear those little noises. I'm not trying to be disrespectful
but as you can tell... I love the squeeks, I think it's part of what
gives an acoustic instrument it's quality and charm.
On the other side of the coin... I agree... bad technique, poor
performance, bad quality recording can over emphasize this.

Thanks again for the input.
Toby
  #5   Report Post  
Toby
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Neil Henderson" wrote in message . com...
"Toby" wrote in message
om...
A very nice gentleman from this board asked me to post a request for
comments
on my latest song to get everyones minds off politics and the general BS.
;-)

I would be honored if you take a listen to "Kathy"
it's an acoustic instrumental at SoundClick...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/tobybrezmusic.htm



Very nice composition... signal chain, please? A bit much string noise for
my taste, but it's not overly annoying. Nice fiddle, was that sampled? The
guitar voicings are somewhat reminiscent of Alex DeGrassi - are you a fan of
his style?

Neil Henderson



Hey Neil,

Thanks so much for listening and the comments.
There are two guitars, Seagull S6 steel string and Alvarez nylon. 4
individual parts. All guitar parts recorded stereo with Sennheisser
MD421 and EVPL80 approx 6" away from soundhole and 12th fret. No
compression into SONAR.
Light chorus and reverb using sends. Noise reduction (fan noise) with
Soundforge NR. Light compression and limiting on mix.

Interesting comment about the fiddle... tells me a lot!
It is a sample set... Garritan GPO violin and Viola for the pad.
I'm not familiar with Alex DeGrassi but I will search him out.

Other folks have commented on the "string noise" I have a theory and
it's just my theory... Could it be we've gotten so used to sterile
samples that we are more concerned with perfect / clean that we loose
sight of the fact that guitars squeek, scratch, zing, etc...? If 4
guitarists were in a room recording this piece live, I'm thinking you
would hear those little noises. I'm not trying to be disrespectful
but as you can tell... I love the squeeks, I think it's part of what
gives an acoustic instrument it's quality and charm.
On the other side of the coin... I agree... bad technique, poor
performance, bad quality recording can over emphasize this.

Thanks again for the input.
Toby


  #6   Report Post  
Paul Stamler
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Toby" wrote in message
om...

Well, for whatever reason, I can't listen to the piece, because my computer
gets the wim-wams from trying to play the stream. Ah, Windows...

But I'll comment below on what I haven't heard.

Thanks so much for listening and the comments.
There are two guitars, Seagull S6 steel string and Alvarez nylon. 4
individual parts. All guitar parts recorded stereo with Sennheisser
MD421 and EVPL80 approx 6" away from soundhole and 12th fret. No
compression into SONAR.
Light chorus and reverb using sends. Noise reduction (fan noise) with
Soundforge NR. Light compression and limiting on mix.

[snip]
Other folks have commented on the "string noise" I have a theory and
it's just my theory... Could it be we've gotten so used to sterile
samples that we are more concerned with perfect / clean that we loose
sight of the fact that guitars squeek, scratch, zing, etc...? If 4
guitarists were in a room recording this piece live, I'm thinking you
would hear those little noises. I'm not trying to be disrespectful
but as you can tell... I love the squeeks, I think it's part of what
gives an acoustic instrument it's quality and charm.
On the other side of the coin... I agree... bad technique, poor
performance, bad quality recording can over emphasize this.


Like I said, I haven't heard this piece. But I've had a good deal of
experience with recording acoustic guitars, and some thoughts on string
soise. First, were you using brand-new strings? They tend to over-emphasize
the various noises strings are heir to. Strings about 3 days old are still
sounding fresh and clean but don't have that over-squeaky sound.

Also, I work in a store that sells Seagull guitars, and they do seem to be
particularly prone to string noise, so you'll want to do what you can to
keep it under control. Yes, it's part of the sound, but there's part of the
sound and then there's exaggerated part of the sound.

Finally, both of the microphones you used in this recording are
bright-sounding -- if the MD421 is a Mark II, I'd say very bright, to the
point of wiry -- and both will exaggerate string noise. A flatter microphone
will do less of that. Lower-cost mike preamps (you didn't list a preamp in
your chain) also tend to exaggerate string noise.

Even more finally, see if you can find a way to record without picking up
the noise of your computer's fan. Noise reduction algorithms have come a
long way, but they still add artifacts to the sound, not usually attractive.
If you can get away from this, I think you'll be pleased.

Peace,
Paul


  #7   Report Post  
Paul Stamler
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Toby" wrote in message
om...

Well, for whatever reason, I can't listen to the piece, because my computer
gets the wim-wams from trying to play the stream. Ah, Windows...

But I'll comment below on what I haven't heard.

Thanks so much for listening and the comments.
There are two guitars, Seagull S6 steel string and Alvarez nylon. 4
individual parts. All guitar parts recorded stereo with Sennheisser
MD421 and EVPL80 approx 6" away from soundhole and 12th fret. No
compression into SONAR.
Light chorus and reverb using sends. Noise reduction (fan noise) with
Soundforge NR. Light compression and limiting on mix.

[snip]
Other folks have commented on the "string noise" I have a theory and
it's just my theory... Could it be we've gotten so used to sterile
samples that we are more concerned with perfect / clean that we loose
sight of the fact that guitars squeek, scratch, zing, etc...? If 4
guitarists were in a room recording this piece live, I'm thinking you
would hear those little noises. I'm not trying to be disrespectful
but as you can tell... I love the squeeks, I think it's part of what
gives an acoustic instrument it's quality and charm.
On the other side of the coin... I agree... bad technique, poor
performance, bad quality recording can over emphasize this.


Like I said, I haven't heard this piece. But I've had a good deal of
experience with recording acoustic guitars, and some thoughts on string
soise. First, were you using brand-new strings? They tend to over-emphasize
the various noises strings are heir to. Strings about 3 days old are still
sounding fresh and clean but don't have that over-squeaky sound.

Also, I work in a store that sells Seagull guitars, and they do seem to be
particularly prone to string noise, so you'll want to do what you can to
keep it under control. Yes, it's part of the sound, but there's part of the
sound and then there's exaggerated part of the sound.

Finally, both of the microphones you used in this recording are
bright-sounding -- if the MD421 is a Mark II, I'd say very bright, to the
point of wiry -- and both will exaggerate string noise. A flatter microphone
will do less of that. Lower-cost mike preamps (you didn't list a preamp in
your chain) also tend to exaggerate string noise.

Even more finally, see if you can find a way to record without picking up
the noise of your computer's fan. Noise reduction algorithms have come a
long way, but they still add artifacts to the sound, not usually attractive.
If you can get away from this, I think you'll be pleased.

Peace,
Paul


  #8   Report Post  
Toby
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Paul Stamler" wrote in message ...

Well, for whatever reason, I can't listen to the piece, because my computer
gets the wim-wams from trying to play the stream. Ah, Windows...

But I'll comment below on what I haven't heard.


Like I said, I haven't heard this piece. But I've had a good deal of
experience with recording acoustic guitars, and some thoughts on string
soise. First, were you using brand-new strings? They tend to over-emphasize
the various noises strings are heir to. Strings about 3 days old are still
sounding fresh and clean but don't have that over-squeaky sound.

Also, I work in a store that sells Seagull guitars, and they do seem to be
particularly prone to string noise, so you'll want to do what you can to
keep it under control. Yes, it's part of the sound, but there's part of the
sound and then there's exaggerated part of the sound.

Finally, both of the microphones you used in this recording are
bright-sounding -- if the MD421 is a Mark II, I'd say very bright, to the
point of wiry -- and both will exaggerate string noise. A flatter microphone
will do less of that. Lower-cost mike preamps (you didn't list a preamp in
your chain) also tend to exaggerate string noise.

Even more finally, see if you can find a way to record without picking up
the noise of your computer's fan. Noise reduction algorithms have come a
long way, but they still add artifacts to the sound, not usually attractive.
If you can get away from this, I think you'll be pleased.

Peace,
Paul


Hey Paul,

Thanks so much for the valuable feedback.
Now I'm really curious if you would think this recording has an over
abundance of string squeek. I'm hoping you get a chance to listen and
give me your feedback.
The preamps used are from a Mackie 1202VLZ straight into the pres and
back out again.
Thanks for the mic information, I'm looking to upgrade and need a
matched stereo pair. Any recommendations?
I'm also going to rearrange my studio space to reduce fan noise. I
agree, noise reduction algorhythms have come a long way but there are
definitely artifacts.

Thanks again,
Toby
  #9   Report Post  
Toby
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Paul Stamler" wrote in message ...

Well, for whatever reason, I can't listen to the piece, because my computer
gets the wim-wams from trying to play the stream. Ah, Windows...

But I'll comment below on what I haven't heard.


Like I said, I haven't heard this piece. But I've had a good deal of
experience with recording acoustic guitars, and some thoughts on string
soise. First, were you using brand-new strings? They tend to over-emphasize
the various noises strings are heir to. Strings about 3 days old are still
sounding fresh and clean but don't have that over-squeaky sound.

Also, I work in a store that sells Seagull guitars, and they do seem to be
particularly prone to string noise, so you'll want to do what you can to
keep it under control. Yes, it's part of the sound, but there's part of the
sound and then there's exaggerated part of the sound.

Finally, both of the microphones you used in this recording are
bright-sounding -- if the MD421 is a Mark II, I'd say very bright, to the
point of wiry -- and both will exaggerate string noise. A flatter microphone
will do less of that. Lower-cost mike preamps (you didn't list a preamp in
your chain) also tend to exaggerate string noise.

Even more finally, see if you can find a way to record without picking up
the noise of your computer's fan. Noise reduction algorithms have come a
long way, but they still add artifacts to the sound, not usually attractive.
If you can get away from this, I think you'll be pleased.

Peace,
Paul


Hey Paul,

Thanks so much for the valuable feedback.
Now I'm really curious if you would think this recording has an over
abundance of string squeek. I'm hoping you get a chance to listen and
give me your feedback.
The preamps used are from a Mackie 1202VLZ straight into the pres and
back out again.
Thanks for the mic information, I'm looking to upgrade and need a
matched stereo pair. Any recommendations?
I'm also going to rearrange my studio space to reduce fan noise. I
agree, noise reduction algorhythms have come a long way but there are
definitely artifacts.

Thanks again,
Toby
  #10   Report Post  
Neil Henderson
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Toby" wrote in message
om...
Hey Neil,

Thanks so much for listening and the comments.
There are two guitars, Seagull S6 steel string and Alvarez nylon. 4
individual parts. All guitar parts recorded stereo with Sennheisser
MD421 and EVPL80 approx 6" away from soundhole and 12th fret.


Not technically "stereo", but I get your meaning.

No
compression into SONAR.
Light chorus and reverb using sends. Noise reduction (fan noise) with
Soundforge NR. Light compression and limiting on mix.


What kind of EQ-ing did you do? Any? Just wondering if that may have
emphasized the string noise.

Interesting comment about the fiddle... tells me a lot!


Tells you what? That I guessed it was a sample, or that I wasn't 100%
positive that it wasn't? lol

It is a sample set... Garritan GPO violin and Viola for the pad.
I'm not familiar with Alex DeGrassi but I will search him out.


Windham Hill ******. Nice stuff if you're into that sort of thing...
good player overall, IMO.

Other folks have commented on the "string noise" I have a theory and
it's just my theory... Could it be we've gotten so used to sterile
samples that we are more concerned with perfect / clean that we loose
sight of the fact that guitars squeek, scratch, zing, etc...?


No. I'm a guitarist & don't use sampled guitars, I was asking from a
player's point of view more than an engineering one.

If 4 guitarists were in a room recording this piece live, I'm thinking
you
would hear those little noises. I'm not trying to be disrespectful
but as you can tell... I love the squeeks, I think it's part of what
gives an acoustic instrument it's quality and charm.


You're not being disrespectful, it's your opinion - from a players' point of
view, it bothered me that there was the degree of noise that there was. From
an engineering standpoint, I've never recorded acoustic with that much
squeakitude going to track... again, it wasn't horrible, just a bit more
than I would've preferred hearing.

On the other side of the coin... I agree... bad technique, poor
performance, bad quality recording can over emphasize this.


Could've been anything, really.

Have you ever tried any type of condensor mics, but a little further back
from the source? IMO, 6" is VERY close for acoustic guitar. Even backing off
those dynamics a bit, but giving yourself a bit more preamp gain - assuming
you can do that without introducing too much noise - might help. Just
wondering.

Neil Henderson






  #11   Report Post  
Paul Stamler
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Toby" wrote in message
om...
"Paul Stamler" wrote in message

...

Thanks so much for the valuable feedback.
Now I'm really curious if you would think this recording has an over
abundance of string squeek. I'm hoping you get a chance to listen and
give me your feedback.


Do you have a website where you can post an mp3 excerpt, maybe 30 sec.
worth?

The preamps used are from a Mackie 1202VLZ straight into the pres and
back out again.
Thanks for the mic information, I'm looking to upgrade and need a
matched stereo pair. Any recommendations?


Given the bright voicing of Seagull guitars, you might want to try a pair of
Rode NT5's. They have the reputation of being sweet on top.

By "back out again" from the Mackie preamps, are you coming out the Direct
Outs, or the inserts. If the former, try the latter.

Peace,
Paul


  #12   Report Post  
Toby
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Neil Henderson" wrote in message . com...
"Toby" wrote in message
om...

Not technically "stereo", but I get your meaning.


Hey Neil,

What would constitute "technically stereo"?


No
compression into SONAR.
Light chorus and reverb using sends. Noise reduction (fan noise) with
Soundforge NR. Light compression and limiting on mix.


What kind of EQ-ing did you do? Any? Just wondering if that may have
emphasized the string noise.



Yeah, I may have boosted up around 12k, I definitely need to remix.


Interesting comment about the fiddle... tells me a lot!


Tells you what? That I guessed it was a sample, or that I wasn't 100%
positive that it wasn't? lol


Well, even if someone isn't "positive"... that's much better than
being blatantly obvious. ;-)


It is a sample set... Garritan GPO violin and Viola for the pad.
I'm not familiar with Alex DeGrassi but I will search him out.


Windham Hill ******. Nice stuff if you're into that sort of thing...
good player overall, IMO.


I am into that stuff, I have an old Windham Hill acoustic guitar
sampler which came out probably 12 years ago, it's great!


Other folks have commented on the "string noise" I have a theory and
it's just my theory... Could it be we've gotten so used to sterile
samples that we are more concerned with perfect / clean that we loose
sight of the fact that guitars squeek, scratch, zing, etc...?


No. I'm a guitarist & don't use sampled guitars, I was asking from a
player's point of view more than an engineering one.


cool

If 4 guitarists were in a room recording this piece live, I'm thinking
you
would hear those little noises. I'm not trying to be disrespectful
but as you can tell... I love the squeeks, I think it's part of what
gives an acoustic instrument it's quality and charm.


You're not being disrespectful, it's your opinion - from a players' point of
view, it bothered me that there was the degree of noise that there was. From
an engineering standpoint, I've never recorded acoustic with that much
squeakitude going to track... again, it wasn't horrible, just a bit more
than I would've preferred hearing.


I have to admit, most of the 4 main tracks were recorded in one or two
takes.
I guess I'll have to spend more time on these... just hasen't been my
style.

On the other side of the coin... I agree... bad technique, poor
performance, bad quality recording can over emphasize this.


Could've been anything, really.

Have you ever tried any type of condensor mics, but a little further back
from the source? IMO, 6" is VERY close for acoustic guitar. Even backing off
those dynamics a bit, but giving yourself a bit more preamp gain - assuming
you can do that without introducing too much noise - might help. Just
wondering.


Thanks for this tip, I'll have to experiment with a little more mic
distance.
Definitely time for new mics.


Neil Henderson



Thanks a lot Neil,

Toby
  #13   Report Post  
Toby
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Neil Henderson" wrote in message . com...
"Toby" wrote in message
om...
Hey Neil,

Thanks so much for listening and the comments.
There are two guitars, Seagull S6 steel string and Alvarez nylon. 4
individual parts. All guitar parts recorded stereo with Sennheisser
MD421 and EVPL80 approx 6" away from soundhole and 12th fret.


Not technically "stereo", but I get your meaning.

Hey Neil,

What would constitute "technically stereo"?


No
compression into SONAR.
Light chorus and reverb using sends. Noise reduction (fan noise) with
Soundforge NR. Light compression and limiting on mix.


What kind of EQ-ing did you do? Any? Just wondering if that may have
emphasized the string noise.



Yeah, I may have boosted up around 12k, I definitely need to remix.


Interesting comment about the fiddle... tells me a lot!


Tells you what? That I guessed it was a sample, or that I wasn't 100%
positive that it wasn't? lol


Well, even if someone isn't "positive"... that's much better than
being blatantly obvious. ;-)


It is a sample set... Garritan GPO violin and Viola for the pad.
I'm not familiar with Alex DeGrassi but I will search him out.


Windham Hill ******. Nice stuff if you're into that sort of thing...
good player overall, IMO.


I am into that stuff, I have an old Windham Hill acoustic guitar
sampler which came out probably 12 years ago, it's great!


Other folks have commented on the "string noise" I have a theory and
it's just my theory... Could it be we've gotten so used to sterile
samples that we are more concerned with perfect / clean that we loose
sight of the fact that guitars squeek, scratch, zing, etc...?


No. I'm a guitarist & don't use sampled guitars, I was asking from a
player's point of view more than an engineering one.


cool

If 4 guitarists were in a room recording this piece live, I'm thinking
you
would hear those little noises. I'm not trying to be disrespectful
but as you can tell... I love the squeeks, I think it's part of what
gives an acoustic instrument it's quality and charm.


You're not being disrespectful, it's your opinion - from a players' point of
view, it bothered me that there was the degree of noise that there was. From
an engineering standpoint, I've never recorded acoustic with that much
squeakitude going to track... again, it wasn't horrible, just a bit more
than I would've preferred hearing.


I have to admit, most of the 4 main tracks were recorded in one or two
takes.
I guess I'll have to spend more time on these... just hasen't been my
style.

On the other side of the coin... I agree... bad technique, poor
performance, bad quality recording can over emphasize this.


Could've been anything, really.

Have you ever tried any type of condensor mics, but a little further back
from the source? IMO, 6" is VERY close for acoustic guitar. Even backing off
those dynamics a bit, but giving yourself a bit more preamp gain - assuming
you can do that without introducing too much noise - might help. Just
wondering.


Thanks for this tip, I'll have to experiment with a little more mic
distance.
Definitely time for new mics.


Neil Henderson



Thanks a lot Neil,

Toby
  #14   Report Post  
Toby
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Neil Henderson" wrote in message . com...
"Toby" wrote in message
om...
Hey Neil,

Thanks so much for listening and the comments.
There are two guitars, Seagull S6 steel string and Alvarez nylon. 4
individual parts. All guitar parts recorded stereo with Sennheisser
MD421 and EVPL80 approx 6" away from soundhole and 12th fret.


Not technically "stereo", but I get your meaning.

Hey Neil,

What would constitute "technically stereo"?


No
compression into SONAR.
Light chorus and reverb using sends. Noise reduction (fan noise) with
Soundforge NR. Light compression and limiting on mix.


What kind of EQ-ing did you do? Any? Just wondering if that may have
emphasized the string noise.



Yeah, I may have boosted up around 12k, I definitely need to remix.


Interesting comment about the fiddle... tells me a lot!


Tells you what? That I guessed it was a sample, or that I wasn't 100%
positive that it wasn't? lol


Well, even if someone isn't "positive"... that's much better than
being blatantly obvious. ;-)


It is a sample set... Garritan GPO violin and Viola for the pad.
I'm not familiar with Alex DeGrassi but I will search him out.


Windham Hill ******. Nice stuff if you're into that sort of thing...
good player overall, IMO.


I am into that stuff, I have an old Windham Hill acoustic guitar
sampler which came out probably 12 years ago, it's great!


Other folks have commented on the "string noise" I have a theory and
it's just my theory... Could it be we've gotten so used to sterile
samples that we are more concerned with perfect / clean that we loose
sight of the fact that guitars squeek, scratch, zing, etc...?


No. I'm a guitarist & don't use sampled guitars, I was asking from a
player's point of view more than an engineering one.


cool

If 4 guitarists were in a room recording this piece live, I'm thinking
you
would hear those little noises. I'm not trying to be disrespectful
but as you can tell... I love the squeeks, I think it's part of what
gives an acoustic instrument it's quality and charm.


You're not being disrespectful, it's your opinion - from a players' point of
view, it bothered me that there was the degree of noise that there was. From
an engineering standpoint, I've never recorded acoustic with that much
squeakitude going to track... again, it wasn't horrible, just a bit more
than I would've preferred hearing.


I have to admit, most of the 4 main tracks were recorded in one or two
takes.
I guess I'll have to spend more time on these... just hasen't been my
style.

On the other side of the coin... I agree... bad technique, poor
performance, bad quality recording can over emphasize this.


Could've been anything, really.

Have you ever tried any type of condensor mics, but a little further back
from the source? IMO, 6" is VERY close for acoustic guitar. Even backing off
those dynamics a bit, but giving yourself a bit more preamp gain - assuming
you can do that without introducing too much noise - might help. Just
wondering.


Thanks for this tip, I'll have to experiment with a little more mic
distance.
Definitely time for new mics.


Neil Henderson



Thanks a lot Neil,

Toby
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