The output out of a standard Hometheater is just shockingly poor.
And while at the store found all of the standard consumer models are
just as bad.

Example: JVC TH-M303 Home theater version with supposed 600W
amplifier in Subwoofer - Australian version.
Sound out of the box - teribble - need to adjust treble to +6 to +10
otherwise dynamically flat and no top end. Sort of "full sound" at 3/4
volume. on it's front 120W speakers. (Inbuilt FM radio - shocking bad
sound quality).

Hooked up two off 25W speakers with overload indicator.
Now the sound has no Bass at low levels? Sound is slightly louder -
which means those little speaker are efficient at low frequences, but
not at midle or upper ones. Again with 3/4 volume sound is complete
but not the same vibrant, dynamic sound as the old 80's Amplifier
running same media.

At full volume the amp fails to overload the speakers. - Warning
something is VERY suspect here trailing back to the amplifier IC's
mainly - Sanyo's Audio Amplifier IC's STK402 or STK413 series.Most
manufactures purchase the 10%THD version - so $ tight they can't get
the 0.8% version Sanyo Semiconductor produces.

Details:
Theater AMP is able to supply from 4 - 16 Ohms front speakers. The
Home theater
ones for Australia are 120W ea. measuring 6.67 LH / 6.89 RH Ohms and
6.89 Ohms center - 80W
(I wonder if the Chinese didn't mix up the centre vs. LH side one when
they labled it - the speakers are glued together as it appears they
won't come apart to have a real look after removing screws.)
The substitues are full size 2 way 25Watt units - 8 Ohms 80's vintage.

So these home theaters only give a good impression in surround mode
otherwise they are completely hopless in quality when compared to a
good hifi of the 80's.

The Watts rating must be a fabrication ? because the actual music
output cannot pull the skin of a custard tart compared to a 20W '80s
hi fi,
They must think the consumer is a joke in 2004. LOL

Even if the power is not there, they could spend the extra $20.00 at
manufacture and put the .8% THD IC's in and supply better front end
speakers to boot. But I guess they want us dumb consumers to spend x3
to x4 more to buy a system where they put the extra $100.00 worth of
parts in.

Trouble is that you can go really top end and in x5 years times if you
need parts, they may be discontinued - seen it happen before.

"Nothing is what it is" - these days!

"ausmartin" wrote in message
om...
The output out of a standard Hometheater is just shockingly poor.
And while at the store found all of the standard consumer models are
just as bad.

Example: JVC TH-M303 Home theater version with supposed 600W
amplifier in Subwoofer - Australian version.
Sound out of the box - teribble - need to adjust treble to +6 to +10
otherwise dynamically flat and no top end. Sort of "full sound" at 3/4
volume. on it's front 120W speakers. (Inbuilt FM radio - shocking bad
sound quality).

Hooked up two off 25W speakers with overload indicator.
Now the sound has no Bass at low levels? Sound is slightly louder -
which means those little speaker are efficient at low frequences, but
not at midle or upper ones. Again with 3/4 volume sound is complete
but not the same vibrant, dynamic sound as the old 80's Amplifier
running same media.

At full volume the amp fails to overload the speakers. - Warning
something is VERY suspect here trailing back to the amplifier IC's
mainly - Sanyo's Audio Amplifier IC's STK402 or STK413 series.Most
manufactures purchase the 10%THD version - so $ tight they can't get
the 0.8% version Sanyo Semiconductor produces.

Details:
Theater AMP is able to supply from 4 - 16 Ohms front speakers. The
Home theater
ones for Australia are 120W ea. measuring 6.67 LH / 6.89 RH Ohms and
6.89 Ohms center - 80W
(I wonder if the Chinese didn't mix up the centre vs. LH side one when
they labled it - the speakers are glued together as it appears they
won't come apart to have a real look after removing screws.)
The substitues are full size 2 way 25Watt units - 8 Ohms 80's vintage.

So these home theaters only give a good impression in surround mode
otherwise they are completely hopless in quality when compared to a
good hifi of the 80's.

The Watts rating must be a fabrication ? because the actual music
output cannot pull the skin of a custard tart compared to a 20W '80s
hi fi,
They must think the consumer is a joke in 2004. LOL

Even if the power is not there, they could spend the extra $20.00 at
manufacture and put the .8% THD IC's in and supply better front end
speakers to boot. But I guess they want us dumb consumers to spend x3
to x4 more to buy a system where they put the extra $100.00 worth of
parts in.

Trouble is that you can go really top end and in x5 years times if you
need parts, they may be discontinued - seen it happen before.

"Nothing is what it is" - these days!

I would love to be able to buy a nice, simple, quality affordable two
channel amplifier again!

In article NDSXc.342$UI6.323@trnddc08,
"Karl Uppiano" wrote:


I would love to be able to buy a nice, simple, quality affordable two
channel amplifier again!



Look into pro audio offerings, many with balanced inputs even.

--
cyrus

*coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough*

A prior (un-named) poster said:




I would love to be able to buy a nice, simple, quality affordable two
channel amplifier again!


---------------------------------------------------

Home theaters are a rather silly fad, and have little or nothing to do with
music or traditional stereo. But, you can still buy high quality 2
channel stereo equipment, you just have to look for it. (The Home Theater
fad has diminished the presence of local stereo shops).

A good , affordable, high quality brand for tuners, preamps, and amps is
NAD.


--James--

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 03:05:17 GMT, "Karl Uppiano"
wrote:

I would love to be able to buy a nice, simple, quality affordable two
channel amplifier again!

No-one's stopping you. You don't HAVE to shop in fashion outlets ;-)

In article NDSXc.342$UI6.323@trnddc08,
Karl Uppiano wrote:
I would love to be able to buy a nice, simple, quality affordable two
channel amplifier again!

Adcom, Rotel, Parasound, and countless other companies make affordable
2-channel power amplifiers.

--
a href="http://www.poohsticks.org/drew/"Home Page/a
Life is a terminal sexually transmitted disease.

I bought an Outlaw pre/pro and use 3 old Hafler amps, such as the DH-120
or DH-200. I get robust, clear sound. No receiver or home theater in a box
is going to beat the sound of separates. And, with the old Hafler amps
available from eBay you don't have to spend a big bundle. YMMV.

ausmartin wrote:

The output out of a standard Hometheater is just shockingly poor.
And while at the store found all of the standard consumer models are
just as bad.

Example: JVC TH-M303 Home theater version with supposed 600W
amplifier in Subwoofer - Australian version.
Sound out of the box - teribble - need to adjust treble to +6 to +10
otherwise dynamically flat and no top end. Sort of "full sound" at 3/4
volume. on it's front 120W speakers. (Inbuilt FM radio - shocking bad
sound quality).

Hooked up two off 25W speakers with overload indicator.
Now the sound has no Bass at low levels? Sound is slightly louder -
which means those little speaker are efficient at low frequences, but
not at midle or upper ones. Again with 3/4 volume sound is complete
but not the same vibrant, dynamic sound as the old 80's Amplifier
running same media.

At full volume the amp fails to overload the speakers. - Warning
something is VERY suspect here trailing back to the amplifier IC's
mainly - Sanyo's Audio Amplifier IC's STK402 or STK413 series.Most
manufactures purchase the 10%THD version - so $ tight they can't get
the 0.8% version Sanyo Semiconductor produces.

Details:
Theater AMP is able to supply from 4 - 16 Ohms front speakers. The
Home theater
ones for Australia are 120W ea. measuring 6.67 LH / 6.89 RH Ohms and
6.89 Ohms center - 80W
(I wonder if the Chinese didn't mix up the centre vs. LH side one when
they labled it - the speakers are glued together as it appears they
won't come apart to have a real look after removing screws.)
The substitues are full size 2 way 25Watt units - 8 Ohms 80's vintage.

So these home theaters only give a good impression in surround mode
otherwise they are completely hopless in quality when compared to a
good hifi of the 80's.

The Watts rating must be a fabrication ? because the actual music
output cannot pull the skin of a custard tart compared to a 20W '80s
hi fi,
They must think the consumer is a joke in 2004. LOL

Even if the power is not there, they could spend the extra $20.00 at
manufacture and put the .8% THD IC's in and supply better front end
speakers to boot. But I guess they want us dumb consumers to spend x3
to x4 more to buy a system where they put the extra $100.00 worth of
parts in.

Trouble is that you can go really top end and in x5 years times if you
need parts, they may be discontinued - seen it happen before.

"Nothing is what it is" - these days!

Laurence Payne wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 03:05:17 GMT, "Karl Uppiano"
wrote:

I would love to be able to buy a nice, simple, quality affordable two
channel amplifier again!

No-one's stopping you. You don't HAVE to shop in fashion outlets ;-)

I guess it is the only way ??
Specifications may appear reasonable on paper but not reality.

Must go to my local high end audio store - where I can sit down for a
couple of hours trying various speakers and amps till I find a
combination that works and doesn't blow the budget.
(But I thought the big mutlinational brand names were supposed to do
this for you)? that's why you pay a bit more than the chinese
equivelants?

- Silly me - it's only that the remote reponds faster !!

P.S. - notice how the spec pages are getting less & less detailed ie
leaving RMS off or sensitivity of speakers at 1M etc. etc. Sony,
Pioneer, Matsu****a aka Panasonic / JVC are all at it.

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 03:05:17 GMT, "Karl Uppiano"
wrote:

I would love to be able to buy a nice, simple, quality affordable two
channel amplifier again!

No-one's stopping you. You don't HAVE to shop in fashion outlets ;-)

The general availability of decent two-channel audio gear is much less than
it used to be. It's all this multi-channel home theater garbage. Who even
has room or the patience to put all those speakers and speaker wires all
over their living room?

"Drew Eckhardt" wrote in message
...
In article NDSXc.342$UI6.323@trnddc08,
Karl Uppiano wrote:
I would love to be able to buy a nice, simple, quality affordable two
channel amplifier again!

Adcom, Rotel, Parasound, and countless other companies make affordable
2-channel power amplifiers.

It's not as plentiful as it used to be. It makes it much harder to find
something I actually like (i.e., the sound, features, appearance, ergonomics
and price all come together into a single unit that I will actually want to
buy).

In article Oc9Yc.1266$UI6.195@trnddc08,
"Karl Uppiano" wrote:

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 03:05:17 GMT, "Karl Uppiano"
wrote:

I would love to be able to buy a nice, simple, quality affordable two
channel amplifier again!

No-one's stopping you. You don't HAVE to shop in fashion outlets ;-)

The general availability of decent two-channel audio gear is much less than
it used to be. It's all this multi-channel home theater garbage. Who even
has room or the patience to put all those speakers and speaker wires all
over their living room?

Sometimes you do want 6 channels, but the selections still suck. All
the money goes into patents for sound processing gimmicks. I'd be happy
with knobs for treble, bass, and an adjustable loudness compensator. I
don't want digital echo generators when I already have walls that do
plenty of that.

In article Oc9Yc.1266$UI6.195@trnddc08,
"Karl Uppiano" wrote:

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 03:05:17 GMT, "Karl Uppiano"
wrote:

I would love to be able to buy a nice, simple, quality affordable two
channel amplifier again!

No-one's stopping you. You don't HAVE to shop in fashion outlets ;-)

The general availability of decent two-channel audio gear is much less than
it used to be. It's all this multi-channel home theater garbage. Who even
has room or the patience to put all those speakers and speaker wires all
over their living room?

Yamaha quietly sells some nice two-channel systems. I bought an RX-496
for at work. It's simple and it sounds very good. The treble, bass,
and loudness controls are tuned where they should be.

Yamaha quietly sells some nice two-channel systems. I bought an RX-496
for at work. It's simple and it sounds very good. The treble, bass,
and loudness controls are tuned where they should be.

Well, I have been taking notes of the names of MFRs still making two channel
HI-FI music systems.
Yamaha, NAD, Parasound, Rotel, Adcom (although they've discontinued a lot of
the stuff I really liked).
Trouble is, in most cases, the two-channel stuff comprise one or two units
in their huge line-up of home theater airplane cockpits.

lid wrote:
I bought an Outlaw pre/pro and use 3 old Hafler amps, such as the DH-120
or DH-200. I get robust, clear sound. No receiver or home theater in a box
is going to beat the sound of separates.

Well, that's audiophile lore, which as we know has only an incidental
relation to fact.

I'm pretty sure there are receivers and separates which would be
utterly indistinguishable in a level-matched blind listening
comparison.

I would stay away from cheapo HtiB sets, though. The main
drawback there would be the quality of the speakers.

Personally, I get 'robust, clear sound' out of my
Harman-Kardon AVR520 (whose specs, if anything, probably slightly
underestimate its actual output), which I suspect cost rather less than
three Hafler amps + Outlaw pre/pro...and probably has
more features for me to play with too.

Then again, I don't blast music at ear-splitting levels *too* often,
and I route the bass to an old Velodyne sub, leaving the rest of the
frequency spectrum to a set of 5 NHT superones...so I'm probably
not putting that great a strain on the receiver...OK, except maybe
when I blast that Propellerheads disc at ear-splitting levels.

For a page that nicely collates real vs. mfr rated power output
figures for a bunch of receivers, see

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Holl...1/ratevsac.htm

it appears that *most* of the mfrs listed, fibbed at least a bit.



--

-S.
What am I, some kind of a _can't take a quote_, *poor sport of a f_ck*,
who's whizzing out in flameless shame?

Karl Uppiano wrote:


I would love to be able to buy a nice, simple, quality affordable two
channel amplifier again!


Have Rotel and NAD abandoned that market?


--



-S.
What am I, some kind of a _can't take a quote_, *poor sport of a f_ck*,
who's whizzing out in flameless shame?

James Nipper wrote:
A prior (un-named) poster said:




I would love to be able to buy a nice, simple, quality affordable two
channel amplifier again!


---------------------------------------------------

Home theaters are a rather silly fad, and have little or nothing to do with
music or traditional stereo. But, you can still buy high quality 2
channel stereo equipment, you just have to look for it. (The Home Theater
fad has diminished the presence of local stereo shops).

This nostalgia fo a 2 channel stereo is rather
silly, as it romanticizes a long-standing
compromise of the original optimum setup for
home audio: 3 channel.

As for home theater being a fad, I expect you think DVD players and
big TVs are simply fads too. It is entirely possible to
get excellent 2-channel playback from a home theater setup, if
you so desire.



--



-S.
What am I, some kind of a _can't take a quote_, *poor sport of a f_ck*,
who's whizzing out in flameless shame?

Karl Uppiano wrote:

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 03:05:17 GMT, "Karl Uppiano"
wrote:

I would love to be able to buy a nice, simple, quality affordable two
channel amplifier again!

No-one's stopping you. You don't HAVE to shop in fashion outlets ;-)

The general availability of decent two-channel audio gear is much less than
it used to be. It's all this multi-channel home theater garbage.


Why are you so convinced it's all 'garbage'?

Who even
has room or the patience to put all those speakers and speaker wires all
over their living room?

Lots and lots of people, apparently.

Is that any more outlandish, than having a pair of dreadnought 'tower'
speakers standing guard in the two-channel den?

So, anyway, here's an idea: buy an AVR, but only use it for two-channel.
That way, should you ever decide to branch out, you're covered.



--



-S.
What am I, some kind of a _can't take a quote_, *poor sport of a f_ck*,
who's whizzing out in flameless shame?

Karl Uppiano wrote:
Yamaha quietly sells some nice two-channel systems. I bought an RX-496
for at work. It's simple and it sounds very good. The treble, bass,
and loudness controls are tuned where they should be.

Well, I have been taking notes of the names of MFRs still making two channel
HI-FI music systems.
Yamaha, NAD, Parasound, Rotel, Adcom (although they've discontinued a lot of
the stuff I really liked).
Trouble is, in most cases, the two-channel stuff comprise one or two units
in their huge line-up of home theater airplane cockpits.

and that's because...most people want surround sound capability these days.

it would be sheer business insanity for most mfrs to offer the same amount
of 2-channel units as they did back in '95.

--
-S.
What am I, some kind of a _can't take a quote_, *poor sport of a f_ck*,
who's whizzing out in flameless shame?

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 22:19:13 +0000 (UTC), Steven Sullivan
wrote:


The general availability of decent two-channel audio gear is much less than
it used to be. It's all this multi-channel home theater garbage.

Why are you so convinced it's all 'garbage'?

The concept isn't garbage. But, unfortunately, most of the systems
I've seen are.


Who even
has room or the patience to put all those speakers and speaker wires all
over their living room?

Lots and lots of people, apparently.

Is that any more outlandish, than having a pair of dreadnought 'tower'
speakers standing guard in the two-channel den?

You can get silly in this field too ;-) Both in the "looks-good"
direction and in the "super-tech" one.


So, anyway, here's an idea: buy an AVR, but only use it for two-channel.
That way, should you ever decide to branch out, you're covered.

If you want good sound, investigate what's being used for monitoring
by the people who produce the sound. A decent pair of mid-field
monitors doesn't have to be big, or expensive. Sensibly placed, in a
good-sounding room, they might be a revelation to people who have only
ever heard "lifestyle" systems.

If your wife won't let you site the speakers sensibly, or the room has
acoustic problems, consider near-field monitors. Smaller, cheaper.
You position them just a few feet from your listening position, this
minimises room effects. They still appreciate being sited away from
walls, alcoves, corners etc. though. They aren't going to look
"tidy". Maybe you won't be allowed even these ;-)