[Tobiah]

I went to play a piano piece tonight, and the sustain pedal wasn't
working. Yamaha So8 - USB MIDI - Windows 10 - any program I try.

So I knew it was the pedal, because I've had it for around 20 years
and I've repaired it many times. After some work at the bench, I
decided that the pedal was fine. I rebooted everything and checked
again. None of my software would react to the pedal. I loaded a
piano sound into a popular software synth product, and I could see
its MIDI reception indicator blinking with each press and release
of the pedal, so I knew the signal was getting there, but no product
I have seems to react to the sustain pedal.

Voice of Vincent: Heeeelp Meeee.


Tobiah

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 12/26/2019 8:41 PM, Tobiah wrote:
I went to play a piano piece tonight, and the sustain pedal wasn't
working.Â* Yamaha So8 - USB MIDI - Windows 10 - any program I try.

This is a long shot since I don't know your hardware, but have you tried
to see if your sustain pedal is working backwards? Some pedals are
normally off, some are normally on, and some have a switch. Same for
some keyboards. If your pedal is normally off and the keyboard thinks
that normal is with the switch on, it will act like it's not working.
Could be that something got switched the wrong way.

Check the manual for the keyboard to see if there's a setting that will
swap the response to the pedal. I know of one keyboard, though I'm not
sure what model it is, that if you hold the pedal down when powering up
the keyboard, it will set itself so that it responds to the pedal down
whether it's normally off or normally on.


--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[polymod]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ...

On 12/26/2019 8:41 PM, Tobiah wrote:
I went to play a piano piece tonight, and the sustain pedal wasn't
working. Yamaha So8 - USB MIDI - Windows 10 - any program I try.

This is a long shot since I don't know your hardware, but have you tried
to see if your sustain pedal is working backwards? Some pedals are
normally off, some are normally on, and some have a switch. Same for
some keyboards. If your pedal is normally off and the keyboard thinks
that normal is with the switch on, it will act like it's not working.
Could be that something got switched the wrong way.


Good thought, but if that were the case wouldn't all the notes be sustaining
when not pressing the pedal and the sustaining stop when pressing?

Poly

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 12/27/2019 6:27 AM, polymod wrote:
if that were the case wouldn't all the notes be sustaining when not
pressing the pedal and the sustaining stop when pressing?

Yes, but depending on what instrument you were hearing, you might not
notice if you were focused on why nothing's changing when pressing the
pedal. That's why I said it was a long shot. But, true, there should be
a change when pressing the pedal, and Tobiah probably could have noticed
that.

Could be a hardware problem with the keyboard - a faulty or too-dirty
jack, a broken wire, or a poor solder joint.

--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Tobiah]

On 12/27/19 4:03 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:

Switch is normally open, but notes don't sustain either way.

I'm not playing sounds through the keyboard, but going into
a sofware synth via usb MIDI out. I see the midi light in the synth
flick when I press or release the pedal, but hear no change in
the piano sounds.

I know there is not enough info to trouble shoot, just thought
I'd give it a shot.

On 12/27/2019 6:27 AM, polymod wrote:
if that were the case wouldn't all the notes be sustaining when not
pressing the pedal and the sustaining stop when pressing?

Yes, but depending on what instrument you were hearing, you might not
notice if you were focused on why nothing's changing when pressing
the pedal. That's why I said it was a long shot. But, true, there
should be a change when pressing the pedal, and Tobiah probably could
have noticed that.

Could be a hardware problem with the keyboard - a faulty or too-dirty
jack, a broken wire, or a poor solder joint.

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 12/27/2019 2:41 PM, Tobiah wrote:
I'm not playing sounds through the keyboard, but going into
a sofware synth via usb MIDI out.Â* I see the midi light in the synth
flick when I press or release the pedal, but hear no change in
the piano sounds.

Try a MIDI running a monitor on your computer to see what MIDI message
is actually coming out of the keyboard when you press the sustain pedal.
The pedal may be mapping to something that your software synth doesn't
understand.

If you're using Windows, MIDI-Ox is good, provides understandable
results, and it's free:

http://www.midiox.com/

--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[geoff]

On 28/12/2019 1:03 am, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 12/27/2019 6:27 AM, polymod wrote:
if that were the case wouldn't all the notes be sustaining when not
pressing the pedal and the sustaining stop when pressing?

Yes, but depending on what instrument you were hearing, you might not
notice if you were focused on why nothing's changing when pressing the
pedal. That's why I said it was a long shot. But, true, there should be
a change when pressing the pedal, and Tobiah probably could have noticed
that.

Could be a hardware problem with the keyboard - a faulty or too-dirty
jack, a broken wire, or a poor solder joint.



More likely a combination of inadvertent key-presses on the keyboard
that has disabled the sustain pedal.

geoff

[Tobiah]

On 12/27/2019 11:41 AM, Tobiah wrote:
On 12/27/19 4:03 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:

Switch is normally open, but notes don't sustain either way.

Not that it matters for the discussion, but I chose the
wrong terminology here. The switch is normally closed,
meaning that it conducts with no foot on the pedal.

[Tobiah]

More likely a combination of inadvertent key-presses on the keyboard
that has disabled the sustain pedal.

geoff

Good guess, but MIDI-OX (Thanks Mike) wasn't showing expected
data for a sustain press, so I did a factory reset on the So8.
I'm back to normal now. MIDI-OX shows CC: Pedal (Sustain) and
my pianos work as expected.

It's odd, because I only ever use the synth for controlling
things on my computer. I don't have much occasion to consult
the synth's menus. I don't know why something might have changed.


Thanks all, for the guidance.


Tobiah

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 12/27/2019 9:15 PM, Tobiah wrote:
Good guess, but MIDI-OX (Thanks Mike) wasn't showing expected
data for a sustain press, so I did a factory reset on the So8.
I'm back to normal now.Â* MIDI-OX shows CC: Pedal (Sustain) and
my pianos work as expected.

Good. Glad to point you in the right direction. Sometimes it helps to
actually test what's going on, if you have the means to do it.

It's odd, because I only ever use the synth for controlling
things on my computer.Â* I don't have much occasion to consult
the synth's menus.Â* I don't know why something might have changed.

A wise friend once told me, back when we were first seeing digital audio
hardware and instruments, "If it has a processor in it, some time it's
going to bite you in the ass."

When the expected doesn't make sense, expect something unexpected has
happened.


--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , Tobiah wrote:
I went to play a piano piece tonight, and the sustain pedal wasn't
working. Yamaha So8 - USB MIDI - Windows 10 - any program I try.

So I knew it was the pedal, because I've had it for around 20 years
and I've repaired it many times. After some work at the bench, I
decided that the pedal was fine. I rebooted everything and checked
again. None of my software would react to the pedal. I loaded a
piano sound into a popular software synth product, and I could see
its MIDI reception indicator blinking with each press and release
of the pedal, so I knew the signal was getting there, but no product
I have seems to react to the sustain pedal.

So, you know it's sending something. But you also know that whatever
it's sending isn't the right thing. First thing is to look at the MIDI
port with a raw midi viewer and see what bits are coming down the line
when that light flashes. If you're lucky, nothing will be seen by the
interface at all.

If that's the case, put a scope on the thing and look at the waveform
when you press the pedal. The bits should be the right length, and they
should be nice and squared up. You might see some overshoot since it's
not going into a terminated load, but you shouldn't see weird irregular
junk or hum.

The most common failure here is for power supply capacitors to go bad
causing 120 Hz modulation of the signal, and that will be very obvious
on a scope. But other stuff fails too... those cheap ceramic resonators
that are often used in place of a real crystal can drift, and then you
get bits that are too wide or too narrow.

It can help to put a scope on a working MIDI device so you can judge what
the waveform should look like and how wide the bits are. Remember the
start bits are much wider than the actual data bits, and you should be
able to trigger the scope on the start bits and see the whole word on the
screen at once.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[gray_wolf]

On 27/12/2019 8:15 pm, Tobiah wrote:
More likely a combination of inadvertent key-presses on the keyboard that has
disabled the sustain pedal.

geoff

Good guess, but MIDI-OX (Thanks Mike) wasn't showing expected
data for a sustain press, so I did a factory reset on the So8.
I'm back to normal now.Â* MIDI-OX shows CC: Pedal (Sustain) and
my pianos work as expected.

It's odd, because I only ever use the synth for controlling
things on my computer.Â* I don't have much occasion to consult
the synth's menus.Â* I don't know why something might have changed.


Thanks all, for the guidance.


Tobiah


Digital circuits have been known to produce errors.
Maybe not often, but it can happen.
Your flip can flop. ;-)

[geoff]

On 29/12/2019 2:25 pm, gray_wolf wrote:
On 27/12/2019 8:15 pm, Tobiah wrote:
More likely a combination of inadvertent key-presses on the keyboard
that has disabled the sustain pedal.

geoff

Good guess, but MIDI-OX (Thanks Mike) wasn't showing expected
data for a sustain press, so I did a factory reset on the So8.
I'm back to normal now.Â* MIDI-OX shows CC: Pedal (Sustain) and
my pianos work as expected.

It's odd, because I only ever use the synth for controlling
things on my computer.Â* I don't have much occasion to consult
the synth's menus.Â* I don't know why something might have changed.


Thanks all, for the guidance.


Tobiah


Digital circuits have been known to produce errors.
Maybe not often, but it can happen.
Your flip can flop. ;-)




Users have been known to make errors far more frequently - I'd still go
with the inadvertent key-press combination scenario.

geoff