[Scott[_6_]]

On Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 3:45:38 PM UTC-7, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Scott wrote:
On Monday, July 4, 2016 at 2:57:58 PM UTC-7, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
=20
All of this should have been
obvious to you after a certain number of years of listening to
speakers of various radiation patterns. Can you hear differences
among box speakers, dipoles, bipoles, omnis? Good. Those differences
are caused by differences in the image model, or reflection patterns
and strengths, among those speakers. Study that for a while.

After years of listening I would say the opposite has become quite
obvious to me
=20
Scott I can see you are an expert, and have no more learning to do. But j=
ust=20
as a thought experiment, see if you can imagine this one:

If all ya got is condensending jabs and thought experiements that can lead =
to whatever conclusion we want since it happens in our heads I think we mig=
ht be done. But for giggles and kicks I feel like deconstructing this thoug=
ht experiment since it is plagued by all kinds of problems.=20

=20
Let's go to a good, small community hall and have some musicians in and a=
lso=20
the finest stereo speakers you ever heard. The musicians are placed in th=
e=20
normal manner, near the front of the room and arranged left to right at a=
=20
little distance from the walls.

In the concert halls I go to this is not how musicians are typically placed=
..=20

Place the speakers wherever you wish, but I=20
would suggest at about the 1/4 of the room width point and also about a=
=20
couple of feet in front of the band.

Speaker placement is very dependent on speaker design. No such generalized =
speaker placement will be ideal.=20

=20
The band plays, you listen in the best seat in the house.


What is "the best seat in the house?" Different seats often offer different=
qualities and trade offs.=20

The acoustics are=20
pretty darned good, and you hear the direct sound, the early reflected, a=
nd=20
a little of the reverberant. Good vibes, good music, great spacial qualit=
ies=20
in the room. We record this performance in stereo.

What technique is used for the recording? How is it monitored. What mics ar=
e used? What recorder? All these things affect the recording. You can't jus=
t make a non descript stereo recording. Recording profoundly affects what y=
ou hear in playback.


=20
Now the band leaves and all go home, and we are going to play back the=20
recording of them. But wait - being good old standard old school=20
audiophiles, we have to do a little room treatment here - can't have all =
of=20
those reflections coming back twice and muddying up the sound. So let's j=
ust=20
imagine some Sonex or such all over the front and some of the side walls,=
=20
the speakers still there where they were in the stereo position.

That would be a terrible application of room treatment. If that is the jist=
of your experience with room treatment that would explain a lot about you =
not liking it. Of course a little sonex, even a lot of sonex will not turn =
a good concert hall into a good stereo playback space. If it's a good conce=
rt hall it's going to be bad for the playback regardless of the use of sone=
x.=20


=20
So now we play all of this sound back again. So now all of the sound that=
=20
was recorded of this huge, spacious early reflected and reverberant field=
=20
will be coming from just those two points where the speakers are.

No, some sonex hardly makes a concert hall into an anechoic chamber.=20

You will=20
perceive the left and right most instruments and some of the in between=
=20
ones, spread evenly across the region between the speakers.

Maybe, who knows. I guess since this is a thought experiment we can say wha=
tever we want.=20
=20
But will this high direct field from those two points in space sound the=
=20
same as the live sound that was recorded? Why or why not?

Of course not, with or without the sonex. It won't sound the same because t=
he source of the sound will be completey different. Instead of musicians pl=
aying instruments in the hall making the sound you will have two speakers p=
laying back some, as of now undescribed, recording made in that space. Does=
n't matter if you damp the hall or not. It will sound nothing like the orig=
inal from the same designated alleged best seat.=20