[Audio Empire]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 11:16:39 -0700, Scott wrote
(in article ):

On Jun 23, 4:11=A0am, Audio Empire wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 20:36:51 -0700, Scott wrote
(in article ):

[quoted text deleted -- deb]

You are putting the cart before the horse here. reality does not hinge
on a human explanation. Gravity did not stop working when physicists
were debating Newtonian gravity and general relativity. You certainly
can make an argument for the need for varifiable evidence to support
the belief in cable sound. But not an argument that someone has to
come up with a theory.

Not at all. This is not a case like gravity. Everyone "sticks" to the planet.

Yeah That is *evidence* of gravity. people stuck to the earth with no
human explanation or theory as to why. They kept on sticking even when
people believed gravity worked for reasons that were clearly not true.
So my point stands. Reality does not hinge on human understanding of
it.

There is no one arguing that some people or some things don't stick to the
planet, Gravity is just a fact, and you're right, the law of gravity doesn't
depend upon human understanding in order for it to function.

Bingo.

But cable sound
is NOT a "fact". It is a belief system.

Cable sound is something that clearly does not have any where near the
evidencial support as does gravity and for *that* reason one can
legitimately challenge it's existance. But you can't legitimately
challenge it's existance based on the lack of a theory as to how it
works. We know this is not a legitimate means of challenging things
because we know reality does not hinge on humans having a theory as to
how it works. Thas is what you did and this what I called out on the
carpet. Nothing more nothing less. Your specific argument that
believers in cable sound need to have a theory for it to be true was a
faulty argument regardless of what the reality is on cable sound.

And just like religion, some people
believe in the existence of a god (or gods) and some people don't. And like
the existence of gods, logic and science say that the likelihood that cables
have a sound is so small as to be practically nil. Just as non-believers in
religion require some sort of proof that deities exists in order to change
their mind, those who say that cable sound does not and cannot exist, will
require some reasonable scientific theory that explains what cable
characteristics could possibly exist that affect ONLY a paltry, low-frequency
audio signal while not affecting higher frequency video, RF or digital
communications in any way that has ever been detected by ANYBODY.

IOW, what I think that you are trying to say, here is that if cables do have
an audible effect on the signals they pass, and science can't find an
explanation for the phenomenon, will that lack of knowledge make that fact
not true? And conversely, if you believe in cable sound, and it really
doesn't exist, will your belief in it make it a fact? The answer to both of
those questions is NO.

No, what I am saying is the argument that believers in cable sound
have to have a theory for why there is cable sound is a faulty
argument against cable sound. The argument should hinge on evidence
not on theories. That is all I am saying.

Sigh. That's not my assertion at all, and where you "get" that it is
from my words, I simply don't understand. I have said nothing about
true believers needing scientific proof supporting their beliefs. I'm
saying that skeptics about cable sound would need a scientifically
plausible theory in order to look at the phenomenon as anything more
than a religious belief system, not "true believers". Why would I care
whether or not believers need a scientific hypothesis in order to
support their beliefs? They don't accept the existing body of
scientific evidence against the proposition now, how would a new body
of evidence affect them in any way? I would have thought this would be
apparent to even the most casual observer of this thread. It's just
like other religious beliefs. If science could prove beyond a shadow
of a doubt that god doesn't exist, do you think that the religiously
inclined would accept one word of it? Do you think that it would
change their beliefs in any way? Of course not! Their minds are made
up and in both of those belief systems there is no room for fact. But
people like me NEED facts, because science tells us that cable sound
doesn't exist, And it needs to be proved to me that it does exist
before I even think about changing my mind. The difference between
people like me and a "True Believer" is that if I'm proved wrong, I'll
gladly recant all my assertions about this subject.